ICA: Domain Owners' Bill of Rights

Whois-Search · 14-03-2007, 04:26 PM

Just wondered if you had read this on http://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2007/march.htm

Quote:

At 10:20am, the new Internet Commerce Association had its coming out party as attending board members, with Benjamin Franklin in tow, stepped onto the dais to sign a Domain Owners' Bill of Rights. Franklin appeared at the conference to personally hand this historic document (printed on rolled parchment paper) to show attendees.

See: http://www.internetcommerce.org/file...rint%20Cut.doc

Handed out on a scroll: http://www.dnjournal.com/images/traf...enhandsout.jpg

Maybe we need one of these for .uk?

Another idea for: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01...me_associates/

Tommy Butler would make a good Benjamin Franklin......

grandin · 14-03-2007, 08:46 PM

Beasty, do you know of anyone who has complained about Nominet under that unfair competition act? ie. given they have a monopoly over co.uk and that all registrants are bound by their terms and not natural legal obligations imposed by the law?

Lee

fred · 15-03-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandin

.... given they have a monopoly over co.uk ...

erm, but other tlds are available.

Microsoft have a monopoly over Windows XP?
The BBC have a monopoly over BBC1?

grandin · 15-03-2007, 11:01 AM

By not registering a domain name ending .co.uk you create an opportunity for unfair confusion to occur. It seems Nominet and the experts want it their way but not deal with the consequences:-

On the one hand the experts and Nominet transfer co.uk domain names under the DRS because it creates unfair confusion when certain rights holder don't have a tld ending .co.uk

then on the other hand Nominet say rights holder have a choice

To protect your rights, because Nominet do not take measurable steps to ensure they do not sell other peoples rights, you have to register all extensions...this in my mind is a monopoly

Lee

yesterday · 15-03-2007, 12:37 PM

I don't know any other uk tlds.

.org.uk is for organisations, .me.uk is for people, .ltd.uk is for limited companies only, .plc.uk for plcs only. Nothing for llp's or second or third companies with the same name or same trademark.

I don't remember the monopolies act being about global monopolies, it is the UK we're talking about.

And only one organisation running it - cackhandedly.

yesterday

fred · 15-03-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesterday

I don't remember the monopolies act being about global monopolies, it is the UK we're talking about.

Last time I checked, there was nothing to say you couldn't register a .com if you are in the UK?

yesterday · 15-03-2007, 01:04 PM

you can watch aljazeera too but I don't think that's the issue here.

The .uk namespace has many things particular to it including UK TM laws influencing it, UK DRS, UK passing off, UK payments, ecommerce and non-payment issues, local search engine targeting like yahoo.co.uk and google.co.uk, as well as user expectation of UKness including English language when they type it in.

These issues are strong enough to mean that the .uk domain is the only tld suited to the uk, more than anything else out there.

yesterday

fred · 15-03-2007, 01:11 PM

I agree that there are strong aruments why .co.uk is the best choice for many. When I have clients asking me should they go for a .co.uk or a .com for their new site, I say 'Both'!

It's just that it is NOT a monopoly whilst there are other choices. The other choices may not be as attractive, but they are still options.

grandin · 15-03-2007, 03:50 PM

Literally speaking you are correct but in reality Nominet are still subject to Competition but due to the power of the .co.uk over .uk.com etc... they do indeed have an unfair advantage that needs to be dealt for the following reason:-

The Contract includes the DRS and the DRS allows an expert to transfer the domain name to another for any reason. The Registrant has no option to 'opt out of the DRS'. I am of the opinion that judges need to settle a few more cases before the DRS becomes workable.

Lee

Beasty · 15-03-2007, 08:37 PM

I think .uk is a pure monopoly - if you want a domain indicating a UK presence there is only one place to go.

However, even if you accept for the sake of argument that .com, .net and .eu provide competition (other country suffixes can not by any stretch come into the picture) then .uk remains the dominant domain extension of choice for UK residents. That is enough for the Competition Act

In truth, the others are not competitors. As you say Fred, people ask for/are told to register both .uk and .com if they are available - they are not seriously choosing between the two. More likely only one or other will be free!

In my view, the question is not whether or not they are a monopoly - but whether they are abusing their dominant market position.

14-03-2007, 08:46 PM	#2
grandin Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,006 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 12)	Unfair Competition Beasty, do you know of anyone who has complained about Nominet under that unfair competition act? ie. given they have a monopoly over co.uk and that all registrants are bound by their terms and not natural legal obligations imposed by the law? Lee __________________ Buy To Let Mortgages Buy To Let mortgages Discount Mortgages landlord insurance van insurance student loan Commercial Mortgages Fixed Mortgages UK Hotels UK Holidays

15-03-2007, 11:01 AM	#4
grandin Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,006 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 12)	Contract By not registering a domain name ending .co.uk you create an opportunity for unfair confusion to occur. It seems Nominet and the experts want it their way but not deal with the consequences:- On the one hand the experts and Nominet transfer co.uk domain names under the DRS because it creates unfair confusion when certain rights holder don't have a tld ending .co.uk then on the other hand Nominet say rights holder have a choice To protect your rights, because Nominet do not take measurable steps to ensure they do not sell other peoples rights, you have to register all extensions...this in my mind is a monopoly Lee __________________ Buy To Let Mortgages Buy To Let mortgages Discount Mortgages landlord insurance van insurance student loan Commercial Mortgages Fixed Mortgages UK Hotels UK Holidays

15-03-2007, 12:37 PM	#5
yesterday Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 559 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 13)	I don't know any other uk tlds. .org.uk is for organisations, .me.uk is for people, .ltd.uk is for limited companies only, .plc.uk for plcs only. Nothing for llp's or second or third companies with the same name or same trademark. I don't remember the monopolies act being about global monopolies, it is the UK we're talking about. And only one organisation running it - cackhandedly. yesterday __________________ interim manager. A site about personal debts at personal debts. A site about ski holiday offers.

15-03-2007, 01:04 PM	#7
yesterday Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 559 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 13)	you can watch aljazeera too but I don't think that's the issue here. The .uk namespace has many things particular to it including UK TM laws influencing it, UK DRS, UK passing off, UK payments, ecommerce and non-payment issues, local search engine targeting like yahoo.co.uk and google.co.uk, as well as user expectation of UKness including English language when they type it in. These issues are strong enough to mean that the .uk domain is the only tld suited to the uk, more than anything else out there. yesterday __________________ interim manager. A site about personal debts at personal debts. A site about ski holiday offers. Last edited by yesterday; 15-03-2007 at 01:08 PM.

15-03-2007, 01:11 PM	#8
fred Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cumbria Posts: 856 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 12)	I agree that there are strong aruments why .co.uk is the best choice for many. When I have clients asking me should they go for a .co.uk or a .com for their new site, I say 'Both'! It's just that it is NOT a monopoly whilst there are other choices. The other choices may not be as attractive, but they are still options. __________________ Domains \| Mobile Phones \| Sweets \| Energy Advice \| Smelly Drains \| Paintball \| Rower \| Christmas \| Compensation \| Skiers \| Preschool Toys \| Clear Debt \| Make Bread \| Change Supplier \| Santa Outfits \| Halloween Outfits \| Whiskey \| PDAs

15-03-2007, 03:50 PM	#9
grandin Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,006 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 12)	Contract Literally speaking you are correct but in reality Nominet are still subject to Competition but due to the power of the .co.uk over .uk.com etc... they do indeed have an unfair advantage that needs to be dealt for the following reason:- The Contract includes the DRS and the DRS allows an expert to transfer the domain name to another for any reason. The Registrant has no option to 'opt out of the DRS'. I am of the opinion that judges need to settle a few more cases before the DRS becomes workable. Lee __________________ Buy To Let Mortgages Buy To Let mortgages Discount Mortgages landlord insurance van insurance student loan Commercial Mortgages Fixed Mortgages UK Hotels UK Holidays

15-03-2007, 08:37 PM	#10
Beasty Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 614 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 1)	I think .uk is a pure monopoly - if you want a domain indicating a UK presence there is only one place to go. However, even if you accept for the sake of argument that .com, .net and .eu provide competition (other country suffixes can not by any stretch come into the picture) then .uk remains the dominant domain extension of choice for UK residents. That is enough for the Competition Act In truth, the others are not competitors. As you say Fred, people ask for/are told to register both .uk and .com if they are available - they are not seriously choosing between the two. More likely only one or other will be free! In my view, the question is not whether or not they are a monopoly - but whether they are abusing their dominant market position.

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