Register your domain name

retired_member6 · 22-03-2006, 07:39:48 PM

I'm just wondering but has anyone else in the past found the nominet package to be lacking? it would seem more often than not you're to wander aimlessly around their website to find things. What they should develop as they expect you to do things online as well and find out things for yourself, what they should enable is a CD Rom.

One through ten easy steps on how to respond, including everything, right down to the online forms that lie buried deep on their site. Are you supposed to use them? I don't know. It looks better using them.

I filed my submission before midnight last night through normal email, I included name, address, domain, case number and my submission and it would be dated and signed after print out. At 1:30am in the morning after wondering how the solicitors got such a fancy complaint form, I looked through their site AGAIN.

I couldn't find anything until, quite by chance, I scrolled to the bottom of one page and under an address there it was, online form for the respondent to fill out, which makes the print out similar to the one the complainant uses. So I use it one and a half hours after deadline, only by doing this and when copying and pasting I accidentally ommit two words, the document would have been better with them included.

I have sent that statement thinking it's the same as the one before midnight and also used the better looking form as three hard copies and winged it's way to nominet. Now I find there's two words missing in the hard copies printed out from the 'after midnight' submission compared to submission sent before midnight.

Now Nominet wish to penalise me for using the after midnight submission that's missing two words because they're not the same documents. I'm discussing a way round this at the moment and will hopefully find out tomorrow. The guidelines it has to be said, are inadequate and as a previous trainer their system should be looked at and provided a more man on the street feel rather than all this legal jargon made by and for, solicitors.

Nominet, create and supply a CD rom and also get rid of this paper and within that CD rom, get a trainer to help develop it ensuring every question and confusion is eradicated. I've said it before, but for an event which is instigated at no cost to the complainant, it doesn't half cause a lot of hassle.

Two words missing not two words added, why can't they just edit the paper copies and 'after midnight' email submission to make it look like the 'before midnight' submission as I had intended, I'd give them my permission to sign and alter the paper work.

rob · 22-03-2006, 07:59:11 PM

The 'pack' and website are quite good, plus if there is a problem it is possible to call them and Nominet are on the whole very approachable and helpful.

To be fair there is a decent timeframe to respond so leaving it late is your choice... likewise the two words could be important or not and it is likely if it was not a last minute job there wouldnt be errors? The aim is that copy is emailed and posted, at what point does a document 'change' when they have different words? There has to be a standard timeframe, rules etc and both parties have to follow it.

http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes seems to have help section, online forms and FAQ.

From Nominet.org.uk site click 'disputes and legal' and the DRS info is there, not really 'hidden' - three logical clicks from the main nominet site to get to the DRS response form

I fully agree that a fair bit of work has to be done even if the complaint has no basis etc, however I would say the process itself is quite open and straightforward, even if the decisions and ease of complaint is not 100%

bb99 · 22-03-2006, 08:02:01 PM

I'm afraid I can't really add any wisdom to your situation Lee but having read this post, your other posts and spoken to a small number of others who have had to respond to a DRS, the one thing that strikes me is what a massive and stressful ball ache the whole process is...

... and all this before the complainant pays a bean.

Again, good luck Lee, please keep us updated.

rob · 22-03-2006, 08:06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb99

... and all this before the complainant pays a bean.

This is the main problem of the DRS now... I have had a few where complaint comes in , have to form a reply, goes to mediation with no reply and also doesnt get to a decision.

I would be all for Nominet charging a fee to kick off a DRS ... er... cost recovery of course

retired_member6 · 22-03-2006, 08:50:56 PM

Are you a solicitor rob? I told a few people about what was going on in this latest saga and they all replied 'sounds like you need a solicitor' when all I need is the people at nominet to simply add two words to the 'after midnight' copy to make it the same as the 'before midnight' copy, where's the harm in that?

Not forgetting that I only had 14 business days and the post was late arriving to me and that Nominet wouldn't even give me back that 15th business day which would mean I am on time. How is that correct and keeping to the rules I ask you? One rule for one...

That sums up the situation for me. in this day and age i.e. not Dickensian. Right and proper guidance and all forms should be placed in a CD rom, everything in one place, not left to one's own imagination and I would have called had I thought they were open at 11pm at night. Were they?

The fact remains I shouldn't need to guess about online forms and what with 3000 cases already going through, you'd have thought this would be obvious? Make the system and proceadure more man on the street and take it from out of the hands of solicitors.

With 3000 cases going beforehand, I shouldn't need to sit there half an later after compiling three piles of papers for three different people and then thinking, well my reply isn't laid out as fancy as the complainants, now why is that?

The basics of this is, as soon as the DRS was issued I had lost that's the brutal truth, no matter how much I beleive I am correct in my arguement, the system makes me believe I've lost.

The whole event is issued free to the instigator, I paid for the domain, believe the domain to now be worth a lot more than I paid for it, believe it's use to me is more worthy than the complainants as I have development plans and it is in use for whatever reason I see fit. Yet it's caused hassled, caused me to defend and what's the next stage? Mediation.

I've done all this during a free service and all that happens is mediation? The mediation should have come first, 'without prejudice' then comes the defence building, then comes the evidence, and obviously after mediation fails, if it fails, the complainant would pay the �750, the defendent would get at least �50 of that to pay for costs and the expert can have the �700.

Instead of worrying for the best part of a month I decided, that with all knowledge at hand in that guidance sheet that I wouldn't let this freebie harrassment get me down and I will do it on the last day after spending a week at the beginning getting together the basics.

It's not the full and comprehensive reply I would have liked, indeed I'm about 350 words short and missing a lot of evidence I could have thrown in, or rather 352... it doesn't include all arguments I could think of, however given the process and the free system you have to weigh up how much of a liberty it all is compared to the stress it will provide.

I bought a domain, if Nominet are going to allow a third party to steal that from me then no argument I put forward will help, it just sums up the whole legal game and it's always been the same. I bought a domain, I didn't realise I bought a �3000 fine to keep it or me in court defending a purchase that the complainant brought for free.

So Rob, I'm afraid you can argue nominet's side until you're blue in the face, as soon as that DRS arrives the defendent is made to feel like they have lost and it's yet to be proven otherwise. The fact mediation comes first and the true results of such mediation are not known shows the system is flawed, you don't get actions like that in court, you at least know the result and what cases went to/failed or resulted in mediation.

It could be said proceedings have already begun by way of full submission accepted beforehand so the public at large have a right to know what the result was, is mediation just a glorified get a domain for �650? what does it offer, what the majority of results? We don't know but as proceedings had already begun and there's no way of building a case afterwards, one would suggest there's more than a good reason to know.

Try not to argue my initial points too much, or please do, but realise that this is my perspective from a training point of view, one shouldn't presume the person receiving the bundle and guidelines will automatically find what you want them too unless you list that guideline.

If there's a mention of online forms and a url then fair enough, I didn't see it though. Step by step and that's the website I will provide when I've finished, because I don't want others going through the same problems and asking the same questions several thousand others may have asked.

I've lost now it's up the independent expert, if mediation fails - at which point for some barmy reason you won't even know the result - to tell me why the complainant gets a domain name for free.

Furthermore, on this new website, I'll hopefully be able to run an informal dummy procedure, not procedures for dummies, whereby a a person can gain experience of a DRS before they've even been subject to one making them stronger in knowledge where Nominet's guidelines lack.

rob · 22-03-2006, 09:26:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeOwen

Are you a solicitor rob? I told a few people about what was going on in this latest saga and they all replied 'sounds like you need a solicitor' when all I need is the people at nominet to simply strike two words from the 'after midnight' copy to make it the same as the 'before midnight' copy, where's the harm in that?

No I am not a solicitor, I didnt realise I had to be one

You asked if I found Nominets DRS stuff to be lacking... I dont.

Quote:

Not forgetting that I only had 14 business days and the post was late arriving to me and that Nominet wouldn't even give me back that 15th business day which would mean I am on time. How is that correct and keeping to the rules I ask you? One rule for one...

Right, so you had 15 days.

-1 day due to postal errors, however up until the cock up last night / this morning you were aware of midnight being the 'real' deadline.

Quote:

That sums up the situation for me. in this day and age i.e. not Dickensian. Right and proper guidance and all forms should be placed in a CD rom, everything in one place, not left to one's own imagination and I would have called had I thought they were open at 11pm at night. Were they?

CD-ROM is quite dickensian in my view... I would have no problem with it all being done via email , however that would require all domain owners to keep current PGP keys with Nominet, in the words of Big Ron thats a 'Big Ask'.

Calling Nominet one hour before the deadline? What about the previous 13 working days or earlier in that day?

Quote:

The fact remains I shouldn't need to guess about online forms and what with 3000 cases already going through, you'd have thought this would be obvious? Make the system and proceadure more man on the street and take it from out of the hands of solicitors.

With 3000 cases going beforehand, I shouldn't need to sit there half an later after compiling three piles of papers for three different people and then thinking, well my reply isn't laid out as fancy as the complainants, now why is that?

I am not sure what more nominet can do as there is loads of information and guides on their website and they post out a load of bumpf as well, and on top there is email / telephone support if needed. How far do Nominet go? giving you a CD with all the information on it wont help you if you havent followed the website / info pack!?

Quote:

The basics of this is, as soon as the DRS was issued I had lost that's the brutal truth, no matter how much I beleive I am correct in my arguement, the system makes me believe I've lost.

I wouldnt say the system made me feel that, each to their own though ...!

Quote:

The whole event is issued free to the instigator, I paid for the domain, believe the domain to now be worth a lot more than I paid for it, believe it's use to me is more worthy than the complainants as I have development plans and it is in use for whatever reason I see fit. Yet it's caused hassled, caused me to defend and what's the next stage? Mediation.

I've done all this during a free service and all that happens is mediation? The mediation should have come first, 'without prejudice' then comes the defence building, then comes the evidence, and obviously after mediation fails, if it fails, the complainant would pay the �750, the defendent would get at least �50 of that to pay for costs and the expert can have the �700.

As I have said before, I agree it is wrong for DRS to be kicked off for free and no hassle to instigator as everything has to be defended just incase it does get to a decsion.

Complaining now is pointless and this is where we disagree

The system was in place + terms there when domain regged / paid up renewal etc... there was a feedback session a while back on the new policy (my complaint was on the 'pattern of registration' rule) . There is no point saying documents with different words ought to be the same, that deadlines ought to be extended, that mediation ought to be first etc etc - better getting on with the job!

Quote:

I bought a domain, if Nominet are going to allow a third party to steal that from me then no argument I put forward will help, it just sums up the whole legal game and it's always been the same. I bought a domain, I didn't realise I bought a �3000 fine to keep it or me in court defending a purchase that the complainant brought for free.

So Rob, I'm afraid you can argue nominet's side until you're blue in the face, as soon as that DRS arrives the defendent is made to feel like they have lost and it's yet to be proven otherwise. The fact mediation comes first and the true results of such mediation are not known shows the system is flawed, you don't get actions like that in court, you at least know the result and what cases went to mediation.

No... its a complaint, you get to reply... someone else decides if the problem cannot be sorted.

There has to be a process for dispute resolution and this is the one, and the one you agreed to use !?

As for mediation being confidential, I think that is a good thing.

Quote:

It could be said proceedings have already begun by way of full submission accepted beforehand so the public at large have a right to know what the result was, is mediation just a glorified get a domain for �650? what does it offer, what the majority of results? We don't know but as proceedings had already begun and there's no way of building a case afterwards, one would suggest there's more than a good reason to know.

Try not to argue my initial points too much, or please do, but realise that this is my perspective from a training point of view, one shouldn't presume the person receiving the bundle and guidelines will automatically find what you want them too unless you list that guideline.

If there's a mention of online forms and a url then fair enough, I didn't see it though. Steps one to ten and that's the website I will provide all when I've finished, because I don't want others going through the same problems and asking the same questions several thousand others may have asked. I've lost now it's up the independent expert, if mediation fails at which points for some barmy reason you won't know even the result, to tell me why the complainant gets a domain name for free.

It seems the main gripe is that things are not explict on what steps to take.

www.nominet.org.uk , click 'disputes and legal'

at the bottom:
Dispute Resolution Service Help
Dispute Resolution Service Online Forms
Dispute Resolution Service FAQ

Top right has

Quote:

Related contacts

Contact the DRS team about disputes

drs@nominet.org.uk
01865 332211

In another thread you were asking for the DRS team email address

Clicking on the first one, the HELP, comes up with http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/drs/help/ which has a pretty blatent information set.... forms, timetables, examples etc etc

All the information is there

I have full sympathy over the DRS and the injustice if it is invalid and that you have to spend time defending it at no hassle to the insitgator, however I dont believe the information / Nominet system is dire , and that the process has rules for a reason...

retired_member6 · 22-03-2006, 09:31:29 PM

Quote:

Complaining now is pointless and this is where we disagree The system was in place + terms there when domain regged / paid up renewal etc... there was a feedback session a while back on the new policy (my complaint was on the 'pattern of registration' rule) . There is no point saying documents with different words ought to be the same, that deadlines ought to be extended, that mediation ought to be first etc etc - better getting on with the job!

Give it a rest, who's complaining? we're having a discussion! Complaining is what I would do to nominet not here on a message board.

retired_member6 · 22-03-2006, 09:32:34 PM

Quote:

-1 day due to postal errors, however up until the cock up last night / this morning you were aware of midnight being the 'real' deadline.

Still one rule for one...

retired_member6 · 22-03-2006, 09:36:13 PM

Quote:

In another thread you were asking for the DRS team email address

No I didn't ask for the address, I asked if it was correct and why would Nominet have a reply address that didn't work?

rob · 22-03-2006, 09:37:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeOwen

Give it a rest, who's complaining? we're having a discussion! Complaining is what I would do to nominet not here on a message board.

Well I took your post as complaining about the DRS process, the inflexibity of it to not give you an extra time and for being too strict on document submission

22-03-2006, 07:39:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
retired_member6 Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,740 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 41)	Guidance Notes - CD Rom & Error I'm just wondering but has anyone else in the past found the nominet package to be lacking? it would seem more often than not you're to wander aimlessly around their website to find things. What they should develop as they expect you to do things online as well and find out things for yourself, what they should enable is a CD Rom. One through ten easy steps on how to respond, including everything, right down to the online forms that lie buried deep on their site. Are you supposed to use them? I don't know. It looks better using them. I filed my submission before midnight last night through normal email, I included name, address, domain, case number and my submission and it would be dated and signed after print out. At 1:30am in the morning after wondering how the solicitors got such a fancy complaint form, I looked through their site AGAIN. I couldn't find anything until, quite by chance, I scrolled to the bottom of one page and under an address there it was, online form for the respondent to fill out, which makes the print out similar to the one the complainant uses. So I use it one and a half hours after deadline, only by doing this and when copying and pasting I accidentally ommit two words, the document would have been better with them included. I have sent that statement thinking it's the same as the one before midnight and also used the better looking form as three hard copies and winged it's way to nominet. Now I find there's two words missing in the hard copies printed out from the 'after midnight' submission compared to submission sent before midnight. Now Nominet wish to penalise me for using the after midnight submission that's missing two words because they're not the same documents. I'm discussing a way round this at the moment and will hopefully find out tomorrow. The guidelines it has to be said, are inadequate and as a previous trainer their system should be looked at and provided a more man on the street feel rather than all this legal jargon made by and for, solicitors. Nominet, create and supply a CD rom and also get rid of this paper and within that CD rom, get a trainer to help develop it ensuring every question and confusion is eradicated. I've said it before, but for an event which is instigated at no cost to the complainant, it doesn't half cause a lot of hassle. Two words missing not two words added, why can't they just edit the paper copies and 'after midnight' email submission to make it look like the 'before midnight' submission as I had intended, I'd give them my permission to sign and alter the paper work.

22-03-2006, 07:59:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
rob Founding Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,879 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 37)	The 'pack' and website are quite good, plus if there is a problem it is possible to call them and Nominet are on the whole very approachable and helpful. To be fair there is a decent timeframe to respond so leaving it late is your choice... likewise the two words could be important or not and it is likely if it was not a last minute job there wouldnt be errors? The aim is that copy is emailed and posted, at what point does a document 'change' when they have different words? There has to be a standard timeframe, rules etc and both parties have to follow it. http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes seems to have help section, online forms and FAQ. From Nominet.org.uk site click 'disputes and legal' and the DRS info is there, not really 'hidden' - three logical clicks from the main nominet site to get to the DRS response form I fully agree that a fair bit of work has to be done even if the complaint has no basis etc, however I would say the process itself is quite open and straightforward, even if the decisions and ease of complaint is not 100% __________________ Eat more chips! Dont let salad win! I am rob who runs hey. Twitter:@robcouk. how to sell a website \| sell your website to me whats the number for milk tokens? TDA BB Wrexham

22-03-2006, 08:02:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
bb99 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,561 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 4)	I'm afraid I can't really add any wisdom to your situation Lee but having read this post, your other posts and spoken to a small number of others who have had to respond to a DRS, the one thing that strikes me is what a massive and stressful ball ache the whole process is... ... and all this before the complainant pays a bean. Again, good luck Lee, please keep us updated. __________________ Droppr - finely tuned .uk dropcatching for Nominet members Gazebos \| Flyers, Postcards \| Tree Surveys \| Dent Repairs Leeds \| Poster Printing

22-03-2006, 08:50:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
retired_member6 Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,740 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 41)	Are you a solicitor rob? I told a few people about what was going on in this latest saga and they all replied 'sounds like you need a solicitor' when all I need is the people at nominet to simply add two words to the 'after midnight' copy to make it the same as the 'before midnight' copy, where's the harm in that? Not forgetting that I only had 14 business days and the post was late arriving to me and that Nominet wouldn't even give me back that 15th business day which would mean I am on time. How is that correct and keeping to the rules I ask you? One rule for one... That sums up the situation for me. in this day and age i.e. not Dickensian. Right and proper guidance and all forms should be placed in a CD rom, everything in one place, not left to one's own imagination and I would have called had I thought they were open at 11pm at night. Were they? The fact remains I shouldn't need to guess about online forms and what with 3000 cases already going through, you'd have thought this would be obvious? Make the system and proceadure more man on the street and take it from out of the hands of solicitors. With 3000 cases going beforehand, I shouldn't need to sit there half an later after compiling three piles of papers for three different people and then thinking, well my reply isn't laid out as fancy as the complainants, now why is that? The basics of this is, as soon as the DRS was issued I had lost that's the brutal truth, no matter how much I beleive I am correct in my arguement, the system makes me believe I've lost. The whole event is issued free to the instigator, I paid for the domain, believe the domain to now be worth a lot more than I paid for it, believe it's use to me is more worthy than the complainants as I have development plans and it is in use for whatever reason I see fit. Yet it's caused hassled, caused me to defend and what's the next stage? Mediation. I've done all this during a free service and all that happens is mediation? The mediation should have come first, 'without prejudice' then comes the defence building, then comes the evidence, and obviously after mediation fails, if it fails, the complainant would pay the �750, the defendent would get at least �50 of that to pay for costs and the expert can have the �700. Instead of worrying for the best part of a month I decided, that with all knowledge at hand in that guidance sheet that I wouldn't let this freebie harrassment get me down and I will do it on the last day after spending a week at the beginning getting together the basics. It's not the full and comprehensive reply I would have liked, indeed I'm about 350 words short and missing a lot of evidence I could have thrown in, or rather 352... it doesn't include all arguments I could think of, however given the process and the free system you have to weigh up how much of a liberty it all is compared to the stress it will provide. I bought a domain, if Nominet are going to allow a third party to steal that from me then no argument I put forward will help, it just sums up the whole legal game and it's always been the same. I bought a domain, I didn't realise I bought a �3000 fine to keep it or me in court defending a purchase that the complainant brought for free. So Rob, I'm afraid you can argue nominet's side until you're blue in the face, as soon as that DRS arrives the defendent is made to feel like they have lost and it's yet to be proven otherwise. The fact mediation comes first and the true results of such mediation are not known shows the system is flawed, you don't get actions like that in court, you at least know the result and what cases went to/failed or resulted in mediation. It could be said proceedings have already begun by way of full submission accepted beforehand so the public at large have a right to know what the result was, is mediation just a glorified get a domain for �650? what does it offer, what the majority of results? We don't know but as proceedings had already begun and there's no way of building a case afterwards, one would suggest there's more than a good reason to know. Try not to argue my initial points too much, or please do, but realise that this is my perspective from a training point of view, one shouldn't presume the person receiving the bundle and guidelines will automatically find what you want them too unless you list that guideline. If there's a mention of online forms and a url then fair enough, I didn't see it though. Step by step and that's the website I will provide when I've finished, because I don't want others going through the same problems and asking the same questions several thousand others may have asked. I've lost now it's up the independent expert, if mediation fails - at which point for some barmy reason you won't even know the result - to tell me why the complainant gets a domain name for free. Furthermore, on this new website, I'll hopefully be able to run an informal dummy procedure, not procedures for dummies, whereby a a person can gain experience of a DRS before they've even been subject to one making them stronger in knowledge where Nominet's guidelines lack. Last edited by retired_member6; 22-03-2006 at 09:09:16 PM.

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