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dashu1 · 10-12-2009, 01:06:08 PM

I registered a domain name - r*e~n*t a*l c*a r*n*a t* i o*n*al~~ (in reverse order) org_uk which is apparently a breach of trademark - funnily they are advising me that they have the rights to the word "nat#i o*nal" too and I should refrain from registering any domain that contains that word!

Anyhow, what should I do?

Transfer it to them?

They haven't provided an email address to transfer it - do you think they'd be cross if I just dropped it?

retired_member13 · 10-12-2009, 01:47:12 PM

I'd ring Nominet and speak to someone in the legal department. I've spoken to them in the past about this sort of thing and they're very helpful.

I can't see that there is much the complainant could do if you dropped it though.

If you do contact the complainant, I'd make sure that you say you were unaware of any trademark issues, and that the domain was intended to supply information on n****nal car rental as opposed to local. If you want to be really forward, say that you're happy to transfer it, but that you would require modest out-of-pocket expenses to cover your registration costs and the time involved (low �xxx is normal) - this is pretty standard practice for borderline cases, which I think this is.

See FAQ for a bit more info on "scary lawyers letters" and remember that it'll cost them �750 plus the cost of the legal time to take this any further, and they have to PROVE bad faith on your part - and I can't see how a Daily holding page is bad faith.

Hope this helps, although I'm not a lawyer - I have had a lot of evil looking letters over the 10 years+ I've been domaining, as a lot of generic words and phrases, like Na***nal have trademarks in one form or another somewhere in the world.

dashu1 · 10-12-2009, 02:21:07 PM

Thanks Ty.

It was originally forwarded to a sedo page, I've reset it to daily this afternoon - I genuinely didn't realise it was infringing trademark (if it is), I thought it was pretty generic.

They are saying that if they go down the legal route they'll be pursuing me for their costs, but as you say they have to prove it first, and I guess it would be easier all round if they pay a smaller fee, so I might suggest that to them - I do have a friend who's a Barrister if it does get silly.

I have noticed a DRS decision recorded at Nominet in their favour in the past for a similar domain though...

eggbilly · 10-12-2009, 07:18:26 PM

If you're worried, drop the name. They can't do anything then. For the sake of �6 why risk it?

invincible · 11-12-2009, 03:04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggbilly

If you're worried, drop the name. They can't do anything then. For the sake of �6 why risk it?

They could still do something if he dropped it. I know of someone who was sued despite dropping the domain name. Unlikely but it HAS happened.

dotNetFreak · 11-12-2009, 03:19:47 PM

If the letter is from the company with the green logo then I would hand it over, especially since they have a registered trademark for "National" in class 39 (automobile rental and reservation services).

dashu1 · 12-12-2009, 02:58:19 AM

Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'll send them a letter and hand it over.

Seems like the least painful way.

crabfoot · 28-12-2009, 06:00:32 PM

I'd be tempted to set up carnation-al.co .uk as an i-florist - see what they do with that!

dashu1 · 11-02-2010, 12:25:24 AM

Just a quick update on this.

After looking back through a variety of DNSs which were unsuccessful for the claimiant (to get an idea of what would count for and against them) I decided that I didn't think they had much of a case on that front, and not much of a trademark claim either since they've tried that route before with a company doing c-a-r-h-i-r-e with n-a-t-io-n-a-l in the name and they lost.

So in the end I sent them a letter telling them that I didn't think they had a claim, it was reg'd for x purpose, etc but that I'd happily hand it over as a token of good will if they'd cover the costs of �xxx.

I don't want to count my chickens before they've hatched, but they've decided this is the way they will go and we are in the process of funds/domain transfer, which should be concluded in the next few days.

So I'd like to say thanks to those who were kind enough to give their advice on this issue.

Cheers!

dashu1 · 17-02-2010, 12:17:37 PM

Well, this is all concluded now - domain transferred and the money on it's way from escrow.

The person I ended up dealing with was an attourney in the US who specialises in (and has pursued) international trademark infringements for a very large US law firm.

Quite an experience..

10-12-2009, 01:06:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
dashu1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 752 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (92% / 10)	oops - I got a letter... I registered a domain name - re~nt al ca rna t* i onal~~ (in reverse order) org_uk which is apparently a breach of trademark - funnily they are advising me that they have the rights to the word "nat#i onal" too and I should refrain from registering any domain that contains that word! Anyhow, what should I do? Transfer it to them? They haven't provided an email address to transfer it - do you think they'd be cross if I just dropped it? Last edited by dashu1; 10-12-2009 at 01:29:11 PM.*

28-12-2009, 06:00:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
crabfoot Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 816 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 1)	I'd be tempted to set up carnation-al.co .uk as an i-florist - see what they do with that! __________________ Cloud Factories ppi-info

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10-12-2009, 01:47:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
retired_member13 Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,323 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 36)	I'd ring Nominet and speak to someone in the legal department. I've spoken to them in the past about this sort of thing and they're very helpful. I can't see that there is much the complainant could do if you dropped it though. If you do contact the complainant, I'd make sure that you say you were unaware of any trademark issues, and that the domain was intended to supply information on n**nal car rental as opposed to local. If you want to be really forward, say that you're happy to transfer it, but that you would require modest out-of-pocket expenses to cover your registration costs and the time involved (low �xxx is normal) - this is pretty standard practice for borderline cases, which I think this is. See FAQ for a bit more info on "scary lawyers letters" and remember that it'll cost them �750 plus the cost of the legal time to take this any further, and they have to PROVE bad faith on your part - and I can't see how a Daily holding page is bad faith. Hope this helps, although I'm not a lawyer - I have had a lot of evil looking letters over the 10 years+ I've been domaining, as a lot of generic words and phrases, like Na*nal have trademarks in one form or another somewhere in the world.

10-12-2009, 02:21:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
dashu1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 752 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (92% / 10)	Thanks Ty. It was originally forwarded to a sedo page, I've reset it to daily this afternoon - I genuinely didn't realise it was infringing trademark (if it is), I thought it was pretty generic. They are saying that if they go down the legal route they'll be pursuing me for their costs, but as you say they have to prove it first, and I guess it would be easier all round if they pay a smaller fee, so I might suggest that to them - I do have a friend who's a Barrister if it does get silly. I have noticed a DRS decision recorded at Nominet in their favour in the past for a similar domain though...

10-12-2009, 07:18:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
eggbilly Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Midlands Posts: 59 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 2)	If you're worried, drop the name. They can't do anything then. For the sake of �6 why risk it?

11-12-2009, 03:19:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
dotNetFreak Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,358 Classified Rating: 100% (1) Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 121)	If the letter is from the company with the green logo then I would hand it over, especially since they have a registered trademark for "National" in class 39 (automobile rental and reservation services).

12-12-2009, 02:58:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
dashu1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 752 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (92% / 10)	Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'll send them a letter and hand it over. Seems like the least painful way.

11-02-2010, 12:25:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
dashu1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 752 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (92% / 10)	Just a quick update on this. After looking back through a variety of DNSs which were unsuccessful for the claimiant (to get an idea of what would count for and against them) I decided that I didn't think they had much of a case on that front, and not much of a trademark claim either since they've tried that route before with a company doing c-a-r-h-i-r-e with n-a-t-io-n-a-l in the name and they lost. So in the end I sent them a letter telling them that I didn't think they had a claim, it was reg'd for x purpose, etc but that I'd happily hand it over as a token of good will if they'd cover the costs of �xxx. I don't want to count my chickens before they've hatched, but they've decided this is the way they will go and we are in the process of funds/domain transfer, which should be concluded in the next few days. So I'd like to say thanks to those who were kind enough to give their advice on this issue. Cheers!

17-02-2010, 12:17:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
dashu1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 752 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (92% / 10)	Well, this is all concluded now - domain transferred and the money on it's way from escrow. The person I ended up dealing with was an attourney in the US who specialises in (and has pursued) international trademark infringements for a very large US law firm. Quite an experience..