Can "nobody" issue a DRS

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 07:27:23 PM

An Unincorporated Association is a ,and I quote here,;
"..Unincorporated associations have no separate legal identity, cannot own property and cannot issue legal proceedings..".

This is a question posed for a friend. Could such Unincorporated Association issue a DRS let alone own a domain name ?

WP

bb99 · 10-02-2010, 07:47:23 PM

Another way to look at it would be can an unincorporated association form a registration contract with Nominet (which is what would happen if they won a DRS)?

The Nominet registrant types are here:

Registrant Types

One of those is "OTHER - UK Entity that does not fit into any of the above (e.g. clubs, associations, many universities)".

So on that basis, it looks like the answer is "yes".

Are you sure your definition of an unincorporated association is correct? I'm not saying either way, I'm just checking...

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 07:55:27 PM

BB, yes please read below;
Unlike companies and other corporate bodies,
unincorporated associations have no separate legal
identity. This means that an association:
� is unable to enter into a contract in its own name;
� cannot itself be liable for crimes committed in its
name;
� cannot itself be liable for any harm caused to a third
party; and
� is unable to hold title to land or buildings in its own
name.

I dont know the answer yet but my friend is of
course looking into it and once I hear I will report.

WS

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 07:58:05 PM

Erm also, since they cannot enter into contracts HOW would they accept the terms & conditions of Nominet/Registrar ?.

WS

aZooZa · 10-02-2010, 08:28:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiposucks

Erm also, since they cannot enter into contracts HOW would they accept the terms & conditions of Nominet/Registrar ?.

WS

"Although an unincorporated association cannot own property, it may be able to set up a trust to legally hold ownership of property and assets for the community they are intended to benefit."

"Unincorporated associations have no separate legal identity. This means that their members will have to sign loans and contracts as individuals and carry the risk of personal liability."

Unincorporated associations | Business Link

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 08:34:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aZooZa

"Although an unincorporated association cannot own property, it may be able to set up a trust to legally hold ownership of property and assets for the community they are intended to benefit."

"Unincorporated associations have no separate legal identity. This means that their members will have to sign loans and contracts as individuals and carry the risk of personal liability."

Unincorporated associations | Business Link

Yes agreed, but this still leaves my friend concerned as to HOW an Unincorporated Association HAS actually registered a domain AND issued a DRS ?.

WS

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 08:35:27 PM

Add to above "In the name of the UA and not any Trust".

WS

bb99 · 10-02-2010, 08:59:12 PM

You often see DRSs whereby there is confusion regarding the complainant's identity. This happens when you get say a company director who has put it in his own name but he should really have put it in his company's name. Or when a subsidiary company has filed the DRS but it's the parent that has the 'rights' under the policy.

In these cases, the experts can usually see what's gone on and they are quite flexible in acknowledging the balls up and acting accordingly. The DRS is meant to be accessible to the layman, and the layman perhaps doesn't appreciate that he and his limited company are in fact two separate legal entities.

The bits quoted above from Business Link suggest that someone from the UA ought to have submitted the DRS (or registered the domain name) in their name on behalf of the UA.

So if the point of the question is to try and challenge the validity of the DRS on this technicality, I'm not sure that the expert would be so rigid!

If a domain is registered in the name Mickey Mouse, one can report this to Nominet and they will look into it because it's inappropriately registered. If you are right about the UA not being able to enter into a contract, maybe report the domain to Nominet and see if they agree?

IANAL, I am a know all plonker, etc, etc.

wiposucks · 10-02-2010, 09:05:37 PM

BB thanks again for your input. I have spoken to my friend and he has said that definately this was not a mistake by them ,they registered the domain in the name of the UA. They also had their lawyers file the DRS in the clear name of the UA and my friend has found out that ALL their trademarks registered to the name of the UA are all invalid.
Should be interesting.

WS

bb99 · 10-02-2010, 09:11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiposucks

Should be interesting.

Agreed! Hope to read about it in due course

10-02-2010, 07:27:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
wiposucks Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 42 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	Can "nobody" issue a DRS An Unincorporated Association is a ,and I quote here,; "..Unincorporated associations have no separate legal identity, cannot own property and cannot issue legal proceedings..". This is a question posed for a friend. Could such Unincorporated Association issue a DRS let alone own a domain name ? WP

10-02-2010, 07:47:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
bb99 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,561 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 4)	Another way to look at it would be can an unincorporated association form a registration contract with Nominet (which is what would happen if they won a DRS)? The Nominet registrant types are here: Registrant Types One of those is "OTHER - UK Entity that does not fit into any of the above (e.g. clubs, associations, many universities)". So on that basis, it looks like the answer is "yes". Are you sure your definition of an unincorporated association is correct? I'm not saying either way, I'm just checking... __________________ Droppr - finely tuned .uk dropcatching for Nominet members Gazebos \| Flyers, Postcards \| Tree Surveys \| Dent Repairs Leeds \| Poster Printing

10-02-2010, 08:59:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
bb99 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,561 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 4)	You often see DRSs whereby there is confusion regarding the complainant's identity. This happens when you get say a company director who has put it in his own name but he should really have put it in his company's name. Or when a subsidiary company has filed the DRS but it's the parent that has the 'rights' under the policy. In these cases, the experts can usually see what's gone on and they are quite flexible in acknowledging the balls up and acting accordingly. The DRS is meant to be accessible to the layman, and the layman perhaps doesn't appreciate that he and his limited company are in fact two separate legal entities. The bits quoted above from Business Link suggest that someone from the UA ought to have submitted the DRS (or registered the domain name) in their name on behalf of the UA. So if the point of the question is to try and challenge the validity of the DRS on this technicality, I'm not sure that the expert would be so rigid! If a domain is registered in the name Mickey Mouse, one can report this to Nominet and they will look into it because it's inappropriately registered. If you are right about the UA not being able to enter into a contract, maybe report the domain to Nominet and see if they agree? IANAL, I am a know all plonker, etc, etc. __________________ Droppr - finely tuned .uk dropcatching for Nominet members Gazebos \| Flyers, Postcards \| Tree Surveys \| Dent Repairs Leeds \| Poster Printing

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10-02-2010, 07:55:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
wiposucks Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 42 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	BB, yes please read below; Unlike companies and other corporate bodies, unincorporated associations have no separate legal identity. This means that an association: � is unable to enter into a contract in its own name; � cannot itself be liable for crimes committed in its name; � cannot itself be liable for any harm caused to a third party; and � is unable to hold title to land or buildings in its own name. I dont know the answer yet but my friend is of course looking into it and once I hear I will report. WS

10-02-2010, 07:58:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
wiposucks Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 42 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	Erm also, since they cannot enter into contracts HOW would they accept the terms & conditions of Nominet/Registrar ?. WS

10-02-2010, 08:35:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
wiposucks Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 42 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	Add to above "In the name of the UA and not any Trust". WS

10-02-2010, 09:05:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
wiposucks Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 42 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	BB thanks again for your input. I have spoken to my friend and he has said that definately this was not a mistake by them ,they registered the domain in the name of the UA. They also had their lawyers file the DRS in the clear name of the UA and my friend has found out that ALL their trademarks registered to the name of the UA are all invalid. Should be interesting. WS