sneezycheese

…Oh Gordon what a big hole you have dug for yourself.

Simple Maths based on your figures:

Nominet is spending an average 1.36 times more ‘per head’ on salaries than Companies House.

Simple Question Gordon: - Have ‘you’ all by yourself (not an accountant or such like) ‘ever’ set up a company? Do you even really know what a company is? Do you even have a basic understanding what Companies House does?

...I could go on, but I’ll stop, as those who truly know the difference between a domain registration and company formation, legal status, company accounts submission etc. (basically Companies House stuff), will understand where I’m coming from.

Conclusion:

Nominet is spending on average 1.36 times (36% more) 'per head' more than Companies House for a Far, Far easier job! …End Of!

So please, please no more BS.

Many thanks in advance.

Sneezycheese.

gordon

Absolutely, but look at the efficiencies they get for that money.

Absolutely, have set up several personally.

I am fully aware of what Companies House does and what Nominet does, are you?

...but if you pay more per head you get 1 person that can do the job of 2 or 3 or more thus saving you overall.

Nominet get more than 200% the registrations in the last published accounts for that average per head pay that would seem quite an efficient way to spend money.

You have to compare what you get for the money as well as the money spent to consider if it is well spent. It is hardly a shock to anyone that knows even basic business and government to realise a private company with good staff is likely to pay more per head than a government agency.

Gordon

Beasty

Firstly, Nominet does not handle double the registrations that Companies House does. Nominet registrations are done bi-annually - so each year only half of the total actually get registered or renewed.

Companies House deals with at least an Annual Return and a set of Accounts for each company every year. So even on the crude numbers, they deal with about double the amount of pieces of data per annum when compared to Nominet.

Scondly, consider the type of information and the quantum. If I understand it correctly, Nominet receives data processed for them by a TAG holder. I'm not a TAG holder - so please correct me if I'm wrong - but as I understand it basically that information goes straight into the Nominet system and is then accessible online. It is not checked or verified. What happens when a renewal takes place I don't know - but could someone please confirm whether or not it is simply an online payment of the £5 + VAT fee, with no data changed.

Conversely, at a minimum Companies House takes in an Annual Return (now incentivised to be done online, but I'd hazzard a guess that most are still paper) - which needs checking and then posting onto the database. Likewise Annual Accounts (which other than dormant ones, have no standard form) which need checking and again converting to electronic form. Then there are changes in officers, changes in shareholdings, register of charges etc. etc. - all of which undergo at least basic checks to confirm the validity.

Also a domain registration for BigPLC.co.uk requires no more data than one for AnyOther.co.uk. The records for big public companies are much bigger than those for smaller ones - so require more work. People rely on the data from Companies House as accurate. I don't think anyone would make the same claim for WHOIS.

So the rough comparison by quantum is - to put it bluntly - rubbish.

Companies House also has to deal with England and Wales, Scottish and NI systems. It has offices in all of those places. It has scaled back its London operation - it used to be in City Road and I remember not that long ago (prewidespread internet, say 12 years ago) having to go there to microfiche search company data. Now that info costs £1 a pop to download in seconds. I imagine as time moves on there will be even more economies brought by IT and imagine that their headcount will drop accordingly.

Companies House is more customer facing - I file my own returns etc. direct because it's cheaper. Nominet has constructed a system whereby it's cheaper to go through a third party (A Nominet member) - who in turn do much of the work for them.

What is unarguable is that Companies House (and for that matter the Patent Office) are about 10 times or more the size of Nominet by headcount and turnover. Yet (according to the latest available figures) Nomient paid its top executive over £250K and its second top exec over £150K. Each of the others paid their top person a touch under £100K.

Now if you say "But Nominet is a private company, they can pay what they like." I say "They should not be a private company, and this is just one reason why this is so.".

gordon

Let me make clear, I was not suggesting it was a full comparison, I was suggesting that you need to take those into account as well as much more.


Anyone that can read accounts can determine why that was a unique year. However I agree the top exec gets paid more than the top exec at Companies House.

That is a fair enough point of view to hold, but the government itself prefer private businesses doing things due to the red tape placed on government bodies. I can understand both points of view.

Gordon

aqls

It wouldn't be long before the govt would introduce all sorts of extra "very important" categories and "essential" admin to complicate the domain business equally.

It will all be very very important and necessary and completely justified - for those that want it that way.

-aqls-

Jac

Hi Beasty

Rather than us argue opinions on this point ad infinitum, why don't you ask him yourself? I'll also post this separately in case others don't see it.

Further to my invitation to meet and discuss your questions and grievances with Nominet in Oxford, I can offer Thursday, 22nd June, from 12-2pm (lunch provided) or Monday, 3rd July, from 12-2pm (lunch provided).

On Nominet's side will be Lesley Cowley (CEO), Emily Taylor (Director of Legal and Policy), Ed Philips (Solicitor/Legal Dept.) and hopefully Jay Daley (Director of IT).

Can those who would like to attend please email me privately james@conaghan.me.uk so I can tell Nominet who is actually attending. Real names would be helpful guys. If anyone doesn't know how to get there, I'll send directions and a map if you need 'em.

Thanks and regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

Jac

Further to my invitation to meet and discuss your questions and grievances with Nominet in Oxford, I can offer Thursday, 22nd June, from 12-2pm (lunch provided) or Monday, 3rd July, from 12-2pm (lunch provided).

On Nominet's side will be Lesley Cowley (CEO), Emily Taylor (Director of Legal and Policy), Ed Philips (Solicitor/Legal Dept.) and hopefully Jay Daley (Director of IT).

Can those who would like to attend please email me privately james@conaghan.me.uk so I can tell Nominet who is actually attending. Real names would be helpful guys. If anyone doesn't know how to get there, I'll send directions and a map if you need 'em.

Thanks and regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

Beasty

Thanks James - I will email you direct - but can I publicly vote for the 22nd June - as I can't make the 3 July date.

Beasty

I took it from your earlier authoratative statement that you had seen the decision. Besides, Ed is far more likely to give you something...

That said, I can't think of any reason why it does not appear in the relevant section of the Nominet website. Can you?

Jac

What the PAB wants is dialogue and (perhaps surprisingly to some) much of the same stuff you guys argue on Acorn Domains. However, the stumbling block seems to be that some of the arguments on this board as highly subjective when the PAB has to be totally objective; otherwise it simply cannot be representative of the 'collective'; the wider stakeholder communities. If you look at the composition of the PAB you will see representatives from the DTI, CBI, ICO, Cabinet Office, House of Lords, Institute of Trademark Attorneys, Federation of Small Businesses, Oxford Internet Institute, and then 8 elected members who comprise employees of ISPs, Richard Martin (domainer), Hazel Pegg (not for profit in Glastonbury), Sebastien Lahtinen who runs both www.adslguide.org.uk and his own network (Telehouse and Redbus) offering colocation/dedicated servers, IP transit and IT consultancy for SMEs around the world.

Generally, Nominet follows the advice given by the PAB, so the communication bridge between the PAB and the board works reasonably well. There are of course some fiercely contested points at times, but that (IMHO) is what consensus is about; finding a middle ground that we can all live with.

On the question of "what can Nominet actually do without gaining Votes from members?" Actually, not a lot at present, which in the fast moving world of the internet is not even close to ideal. A balance has to be found between giving Nominet's board more freedom to make critical day to day decisions and ensuring we do not leave gaps open that a "bad board" could abuse in the future; but the balance simply has to be found and Nominet needs to be able to react more quickly to opportunities; without having to divulge commercially sensitive information to its members on every occasion, or ask the members everytime it wants to take a decision on prices or services. And before the usual suspects say this might be given the board too much authority, I would say this. It is not in the interests of any board to do anything that might elicit a "no confidence" vote from its members or shareholders, and someone has to trust someone somewhere otherwise business just marks time. As you point out, "if I had to get my staff to vote for all my changes I think I would sell out and move on".

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]