Email dispute

retired_member11 · 27-07-2006, 07:31:26 PM

I won't bore people with the nitty gritty of this domain story, but the central issue is a dispute about whether or not the other party sent commercially critical emails ata particular point during negotiations. They say they did send. When asked to provide copies of these emails they claim to have already deleted them from their email client and that their archive has been purged. They also claim that the emails were not returned 'undelivered'. Interestingly only the critical emails did not arrive, whilst all the inconsequential ones did.

What to do? I'm not an expert on email. Does anyone know if there is a technical way to find out categorically whether their claim is true? To be clear, I'm absolutely confident that they neither composed nor send the emails. How to expose their deceit?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers.

rob · 27-07-2006, 07:33:17 PM

One option depending how you have things setup is to look through email server logs as that will record time / dates / whofrom / whoto etc.

retired_member11 · 27-07-2006, 07:52:20 PM

Thanks Rob.

What's really disappointing about this story is that the other party isn't some shady outfit, but rather a sizeable public body. I'm already trying the Freedom of Information Act route to force disclosure but I'm sceptical it will work. Time will tell.

admin · 27-07-2006, 07:57:38 PM

surely a company of any size keeps backups of business communications for a few months at least?

Slater · 27-07-2006, 08:21:06 PM

If they are a company of any size they will be running some kind of email server to host mailboxes such as Microsoft Exchange Server.

If this is the case they will almost certainly have backups of the mail databases, dont know about other email server software but with Exchange Server even an email that has been deleted from deleted items in the Outlook client is recoverable for a period of time.

retired_member11 · 28-07-2006, 07:48:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admin

surely a company of any size keeps backups of business communications for a few months at least?

Quite right, but keeping a backup of emails that never actually existed is technically more challenging

. They are lying but proving it is the problem.

Beasty · 28-07-2006, 07:53:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argonaut

Quite right, but keeping a backup of emails that never actually existed is technically more challenging

. They are lying but proving it is the problem.

As you say - proving a negative is always a bit tricky!

If the dispute is "legal" then the onus is on them to show that the emails were sent and received - showing "sent" copies would be evidence to support (but not prove) that. In the absence of any evidence on their side - the burden of proof should not be on you to show that you did not receive them.

Jeewhizz · 28-07-2006, 09:15:01 AM

you could go for the log route. However, if it were me in their position, and i knew beyond all doubt that you didn't have incoming email logging, then I could easily forge the mail log to my benefit.

Have a look at your email logs and see if there is anything...

bb99 · 28-07-2006, 09:36:34 AM

Argonaut, I know you said you didn't want to get into the nitty gritty, but I'm curious as to why the receipt (or non-receipt) of emails is relevant to the dispute?

retired_member11 · 28-07-2006, 10:41:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beasty

As you say - proving a negative is always a bit tricky!

If the dispute is "legal" then the onus is on them to show that the emails were sent and received - showing "sent" copies would be evidence to support (but not prove) that. In the absence of any evidence on their side - the burden of proof should not be on you to show that you did not receive them.

I agree.

It may well go legal if I don't get satisfaction.

27-07-2006, 07:31:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
retired_member11 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 974 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 1)	Email dispute I won't bore people with the nitty gritty of this domain story, but the central issue is a dispute about whether or not the other party sent commercially critical emails ata particular point during negotiations. They say they did send. When asked to provide copies of these emails they claim to have already deleted them from their email client and that their archive has been purged. They also claim that the emails were not returned 'undelivered'. Interestingly only the critical emails did not arrive, whilst all the inconsequential ones did. What to do? I'm not an expert on email. Does anyone know if there is a technical way to find out categorically whether their claim is true? To be clear, I'm absolutely confident that they neither composed nor send the emails. How to expose their deceit? Any suggestions gratefully received. Cheers.

27-07-2006, 07:57:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
admin Administrator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 8,601 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 1)	surely a company of any size keeps backups of business communications for a few months at least? __________________ Domain Appraisal \| Domain Scripts \| Domain Software\| link to Acorn Domains

28-07-2006, 09:36:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
bb99 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,547 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 4)	Argonaut, I know you said you didn't want to get into the nitty gritty, but I'm curious as to why the receipt (or non-receipt) of emails is relevant to the dispute? __________________ Droppr - finely tuned .uk dropcatching for Nominet members Gazebo \| Flyers, Postcards \| Tree Surveys \| Dent Repairs Leeds \| Poster Printing

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27-07-2006, 07:33:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
rob Founding Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,976 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 37)	One option depending how you have things setup is to look through email server logs as that will record time / dates / whofrom / whoto etc.

27-07-2006, 07:52:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
retired_member11 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 974 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 1)	Thanks Rob. What's really disappointing about this story is that the other party isn't some shady outfit, but rather a sizeable public body. I'm already trying the Freedom of Information Act route to force disclosure but I'm sceptical it will work. Time will tell.

27-07-2006, 08:21:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Slater Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 657 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 17)	If they are a company of any size they will be running some kind of email server to host mailboxes such as Microsoft Exchange Server. If this is the case they will almost certainly have backups of the mail databases, dont know about other email server software but with Exchange Server even an email that has been deleted from deleted items in the Outlook client is recoverable for a period of time.

28-07-2006, 09:15:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jeewhizz Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,188 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 17)	you could go for the log route. However, if it were me in their position, and i knew beyond all doubt that you didn't have incoming email logging, then I could easily forge the mail log to my benefit. Have a look at your email logs and see if there is anything...