Heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam

woopwoop · 19-05-2008, 09:58 PM

Thought I'd give a heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam that may be happening with a member on acorn.

I won't mention the username of who I think might be doing this but the MO, seems identical to a scam outlined on another webmaster forum:

A user with 0 posts PM'ed me here about one of my domains and said:

Quote:

hey,do u have yahoo or msn for live chat? i want buy that ,thanks

I pm'ed them my email address and they added me.

I searched the guys email after he added me, and uncovered a thread in a forum which outlined how this person did a deal on msngr for a couple of domains, paid paypal, the domains were transfered and he confirmed he received the names, then he requested a full refund through paypal, and they processed it.

I don't know how paypal are able to refund the money even though the items were transfered (unless a stolen credit card was used) but they did, leaving the seller without the money or domains.

I haven't yet had chance to chat with the guy yet but I think that if this is a scam and he's doing it again, then there's a good chance other people on the forum have been pm'ed about their domains too.

Be very careful and I don't know how you can prevent this from happening.

Is there a certain amount of time after which paypal can't do a chargeback and so it would be safe to then transfer the domains...?

Look out for someone PM-ing you the message above with zero forum posts.

admin · 19-05-2008, 10:25 PM

Thanks for the alert, 1 forum post or not PayPal doesn't seem a safe bet for receiving domain funds.

GreyWing · 20-05-2008, 01:59 AM

it's indefinite the time they can claw the money back, if they attempt to claw the money from you an it's not in your paypal account, they'll try to send some debt collectors to your address or send some letter at least.

woopwoop · 20-05-2008, 09:46 PM

OK I'm certain this is a scam so here's the guy's details:

Acorn username: ep42
paypal email morningstarllc@hotmail.com
msn is lili.joon@yahoo.com

Stay well clear.

golddiggerguy · 20-05-2008, 09:48 PM

Not sure what to make of this one but it's an email from a contact form on the website of the domain I own and thought i'd share just in case too.

Hi and how are you today?

I am so sorry if I am disturbing you.

I own the domain name *********.ws and I was wondering if you would like to purchase the domain name from me.

I can sell you the domain name for $100.00 and you can pay me to my paypal account *************@gmail.com or for a more secure deal we can use www.escrow.com but buyer pays all escrow fees. Or you can go to www.*********.ws and submit an offer but since sedo charges me 15% you would have to submit an offer for $115.00 which I will accept and I think (though I may be wrong) that sedo uses escrow so you would have to pay all buyer fees.

If you click on this link https://www.godaddy.com/**********
You will see all usa extensions are already taken.

You can call me to (469)********* or you can call me to (972)********* if you are interested. Or just mail me back to ***********@gmail.com

If you visit my website www.******************.com and you click on ebay store you will see that I have 100% positive feedbacks both as a seller and a buyer.

Thank you for your time and have a GREAT day!!

Sincerely,

Got A reply after saying no thanks

Hi and how are you today?

Thank you for responding to me so quickly.

No problem and I totally understand.

You have a GREAT day!!

Sincerely,

woopwoop · 20-05-2008, 10:18 PM

hmm. sounds a bit strange - but an easy one to dodge if they're trying to sell you a .ws

dotuk · 22-05-2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woopwoop

I don't know how paypal are able to refund the money even though the items were transfered (unless a stolen credit card was used) but they did, leaving the seller without the money or domains.

Well,
PayPal has screwing policies for buyers regarding intangible/digital items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by From PayPal Policies

13. Disputes between Buyers and Sellers - Buyer Protection Programs.

13.1 Buyer Protection Programs. If you buy an item using PayPal and either do not receive the item or receive an item that you believe is Significantly Not as Described by the seller, we encourage you to open a Dispute with the seller in our Resolution Center. By doing so, you will initiate our Online Dispute Resolution Process—a step-by-step system designed to facilitate communication between you and the seller in order to get resolution of the issue. If your dialogue with the seller fails to produce a satisfactory result, you can then escalate the Dispute into a Claim that we will evaluate for reimbursement under one of the following programs:
1. PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy - Our best efforts program to reimburse Users for losses only to the extent we are able to recover the funds from sellers.
2. PayPal Buyer Protection Policy - Our program to reimburse Users for losses for up to (i) $2,000.00 USD (Top Tier Coverage Amount) for eligible items purchased on eBay and (ii) up to $200.00 USD (Basic Tier Coverage Amount) for all other eligible items purchased on eBay and for eligible items purchased on eBay. Please see section 13.9 to determine whether Top Tier Coverage Amount or Basic Tier Coverage Amount applies to your eBay purchase.
3. Buyer Protection for eBay Express - Our program to reimburse Users for the full amount of losses for items purchased on eBay Express.
4. Extended Buyer Protection with PayPal Credit - Our program to reimburse Users for the full transactional amount of the items purchased using PayPal Credit.
These programs only cover payments for tangible, physical goods. All other payments, such as payments for intangibles, services, airline flight tickets, or licenses and other access to digital content are not covered by any Buyer Protection Program.

13.8 Claims Eligibility. In addition to the other limitations called out within this Agreement, the following limitations apply to Claims:

Claims must be for payments for tangible, physical goods that can be shipped, and not all other payments, such as payments for intangibles, for services or for licenses and other access to digital content. For purposes of eBay items, motor vehicles and Live Auctions are not covered.

Source:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...cy_pbp-outside

So it is better to avoid using PayPal for domain transactions. Escrow.com, or other 3rd party domain escrow services like Sedo, Moniker, and AfterNIC are more convenient, IMO.

DaveH · 22-05-2008, 08:09 AM

Quick search on that email address reveals:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=7706648
http://www.namepros.com/460127-rkzj-...1-a-print.html

woopwoop · 22-05-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hogan

Quick search on that email address reveals:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=7706648
http://www.namepros.com/460127-rkzj-...1-a-print.html

Yep I found these after the guy contacted me, that's when I made the first post. I wanted to play through the scam a bit though so it was funny when he was chatting with me on msngr - an insight into how a scammer operates!

alomani · 26-05-2008, 06:53 PM

I lost £550 worth of domains on here by a member called meeboo. Same scamming technique. Paypal took his side and they told me even if it was a scam we can't do anything about because its an intangible item.

19-05-2008, 10:25 PM	#2
admin Administrator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,114 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	Thanks for the alert, 1 forum post or not PayPal doesn't seem a safe bet for receiving domain funds. __________________ 9p Domains \| Domain Appraisal \| Droplists \| Domain Brokerage \| Find Valuable Domains \| Link to us \| Domain Software New to UK Domain Names? - Go Here \| Check Drop Dates \| Domain Transfers \| Game Consoles Make more money from your Domain Names with SedoPro - PM for a free activation code!

20-05-2008, 01:59 AM	#3
GreyWing Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 643 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 2)	it's indefinite the time they can claw the money back, if they attempt to claw the money from you an it's not in your paypal account, they'll try to send some debt collectors to your address or send some letter at least. __________________ Instant Decision Loans Free Radio Unlock Codes avoid Poker Stats Caravan Forum

20-05-2008, 09:46 PM	#4
woopwoop Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 478 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 2)	OK I'm certain this is a scam so here's the guy's details: Acorn username: ep42 paypal email morningstarllc@hotmail.com msn is lili.joon@yahoo.com Stay well clear. __________________ London Student Forums Promotions Database London Universities London English Schools UK promotions agencies

20-05-2008, 09:48 PM	#5
golddiggerguy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 902 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 3)	Not sure what to make of this one but it's an email from a contact form on the website of the domain I own and thought i'd share just in case too. Hi and how are you today? I am so sorry if I am disturbing you. I own the domain name *******.ws and I was wondering if you would like to purchase the domain name from me. I can sell you the domain name for $100.00 and you can pay me to my paypal account *********@gmail.com or for a more secure deal we can use www.escrow.com but buyer pays all escrow fees. Or you can go to www.*****.ws and submit an offer but since sedo charges me 15% you would have to submit an offer for $115.00 which I will accept and I think (though I may be wrong) that sedo uses escrow so you would have to pay all buyer fees. If you click on this link https://www.godaddy.com/****** You will see all usa extensions are already taken. You can call me to (469)***** or you can call me to (972)***** if you are interested. Or just mail me back to *******@gmail.com If you visit my website www.***************.com and you click on ebay store you will see that I have 100% positive feedbacks both as a seller and a buyer. Thank you for your time and have a GREAT day!! Sincerely, Got A reply after saying no thanks Hi and how are you today? Thank you for responding to me so quickly. No problem and I totally understand. You have a GREAT day!! Sincerely, __________________ HullVoIP - OnlineBack-Up.co.uk - VoIPForum Last edited by golddiggerguy; 20-05-2008 at 09:58 PM.*

20-05-2008, 10:18 PM	#6
woopwoop Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 478 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 2)	hmm. sounds a bit strange - but an easy one to dodge if they're trying to sell you a .ws __________________ London Student Forums Promotions Database London Universities London English Schools UK promotions agencies

22-05-2008, 08:09 AM	#8
DaveH Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern England Posts: 220 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (100% / 5)	Quick search on that email address reveals: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=7706648 http://www.namepros.com/460127-rkzj-...1-a-print.html __________________ Devaid Domain Services

26-05-2008, 06:53 PM	#10
alomani Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 66 No Classified Ratings Domain Trader Rating: (0% / 0)	I lost £550 worth of domains on here by a member called meeboo. Same scamming technique. Paypal took his side and they told me even if it was a scam we can't do anything about because its an intangible item. __________________ antimeat softwary

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