Sales, Auctions and User Mess - Lets get it sorted!

[rob]

After reading yet another sale cock up / get messy due to imprecise endings earlier this evening , and a few others with either buyers / sellers being iffy could it be time to have a rejig of how sales and users are run on Acorn?

Specific ideas that come to mind are:

- Extending timestamp information. This would negate the issue of knowing which second a bid was placed. This is helpful for times when auctions 'end at 9pm' but it is not possible to know if the bid was placed at 21:00.00 or 21:00.01

- Improved feedback options. I currently have my first neg trader rep *ever* online due to the (infamous!) FNM.co.uk 'sale' where the seller changed his mind on the rules he had set. I left neg feedback to warn others, and had one in return!? God knows how admin wants us to enable users to know who the dodgy sellers are when it turns tit for tat ala ebay neg reps.

- Default set of sales/auction rules. Perhaps hammering out a set of default rules that have been discussed and holes discovered in them before set live may make it easier for sales to be listed. Currently everyone is making their own terms per-auction which not only is inefficient but can mean things are missed, thus a copy+pastable ruleset or forum default could be quoted.

- Harder action against none completing, fake, untrustworthy etc etc users. I realise this means Admin must take some action, however it needs to occur before sales are not viable on Acorn. This also needs to tie into the feedback options, as per the 'drop' user one regular commented that if he was aware there was outstanding issues a 'sale' would not have been made. At what point does a user get banned? Norville and co post crap and get a ban, but you can fleece members and stay registered users - thats not right.

- Binning the auction section. Its never used by users, and going by the current content I guess the mod's / admin give it a miss as well otherwise they would have bought the site making ' $26,843.85 per month' for a grand

- Real names / company contact information posted for those who want to sell. I agree whois information is there for all to see, however that does not help when the name is stolen or the seller is a broker or the like. This would overcome the need for some for pure anonimity due to what they post, however when transacting is it too much to ask for abit more info?

- If reverse auctions are going to become popular perhaps knocking up a section for them and some code to help calc current prices , or , as above have a standard template for the auctions so its easy to gauge current prices without a degree in mathmatics

Hopefully this will kick off some debate and the users / admin / mods can work together to knock up some templates / rules / processes to regain the reputation and get things nice and tight but very user friendly.

Cheers,
Rob.

[admin]

Rob,

I know the FMN sale didn't go well for you but that's no reason to keep bringing it up and say sales are becoming unviable here, there are plenty of domains sold here (free of charge) without an issue.

If you want me to spend more time validating sellers and approving the rules they set for each sale before they can proceed, I would have to charge for this.

I am also reluctant to ban a seller because they decided to accept an offer by PM rather than in a thread.

I ask as I asked before, why don't people use the Vbay plug-in or classifieds plug-in rather than threads and PMs?

I agree in your case Rob, a negative rating for questioning how the deal was finalised outside of what was posted does not deserve a negative trader rating, I have removed this.

Admin

[rob]

Originally Posted by admin

I know the FMN sale didn't go well for you but that's no reason to keep bringing it up and say sales are becoming unviable here, there are plenty of domains sold here (free of charge) without an issue.

Yes - its the auction sales that seem to be the main problems. I was talking to a user earlier about the one that cocked up today, and it is wrong that three people feel bad about a transaction as they all want to 'do the right thing' - hopefully

If you want me to spend more time validating sellers and approving the rules they set for each sale before they can proceed, I would have to charge for this.

If this can be worked out in an easy process then I would guess quite a few would pay for it - perhaps even making it an aspect of the premium auctions for approved sellers only?

I am also reluctant to ban a seller because they decided to accept an offer by PM rather than in a thread.

Totally agree, however if the seller stated 'in thread only' or broke the stated rules the action would hopefully be different?

I ask as I asked before, why don't people use the Vbay plug-in or classifieds plug-in rather than threads and PMs?

My guess is there is sales threads, and auctions being allowed in them. Perhaps a blanket ban on auction threads and only use of the auction system would be allowed?

However IMHO it could be worth trying to work with whats being used rather than push elsewhere as threads do seem to be much more open for auctions and clarity is what helps.

[rob]

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/domain...strainers.html thats the one from earlier that I was refering to btw.

[Skinner]

Admin, You can set all sorts by forum can't you ?

I had a play with PHPBB and I was able to add HH:MM:SS to a particular forum with a little fiddling, I just put an IF ID=X, blah into the code.

Are there any mods for vBull that allow this ?

I think all that needs to happen is people clarify the seconds... So it either ends at X:00:00 which means final bid at X:59:XX acording to post time, or its X:00:59 which means final bid in the X:00:XX ?

The Acorn time thing can easily be changed to include seconds can't it?

[admin]

Forum post stamps now include seconds.

This applies to all historical posts.

Admin

[namealot]

I have bought at all sorts of online auction sites and at traditional auctions, They all seem to have there flaws, auctioneers bouncing prices of non existing bidders, bringing the hammer down to quick or to slow, there are lots of them for Maximizing Profits not always to the benefit of the seller…

But that’s what auction’s are, you bid what you want to pay…. Personally if I don’t like the way an auctions is set up then I don’t buy from them…
Or approach the seller direct but that normally means paying what they want rather than the market value.

Don’t think you could ever have a perfect auction unless you have a set price but then it’s not an auction….

Reverse auctions with the first person to place a sold message up are probably a better way to go there can be no mistaking the winner at least then

P.S If anyone ever bids on an item I’m selling always make your bids ridiculously high then you’ll be happy because you win, I’ll be happy… win win the perfect auction

[retired_member16]

Its all very simple, use the plug-in for auctions or go elsewhere.

Job done.

[diablo]

Admin's addition of seconds is a big step forward - many thanks for that.

I think sellers should be given a template to work from when setting rules of an auction if they are going to use the auction section.

Most current terms are so vague that the seller can make them mean whatever they want them to mean when it suits them. Or they change them when it suits them to after the auction has ended - and there is no comeback.

When you are asking people to bid hundreds or indeed thousands of pounds for domains, I think it is totally unprofessional to not keep to the letter of what are after all your own rules.

There are sellers who have thought out their terms and it is a pleasue to bid on such threads. A suitable template might come from them.

Unfortunately there are other domains I would normally bid on, but don't because the terms are so vague or indeed the seller has a history of shafting buyers to earn a few extra quid.

All PM bids should be verifiable too - it's obvious that some sellers will bump up their own auctions unless this safeguard is in place.

Once bitten - whether it's me personally or another domainer - twice shy, and that's to the detriment of acorndomains in general. The seconds on the timing is a big step forward, but there is still more to do before all auctions on here are above board and fair.

[rob]

Originally Posted by admin

Forum post stamps now include seconds.

This applies to all historical posts.

Admin

Nice one - will be a very handy addition.

Originally Posted by firestars

Its all very simple, use the plug-in for auctions or go elsewhere.

Job done.

I would agree with that - however would mean mods and admin closing down the threads with auctions. I cant see that happening as basically any seller uses the threads as its more user friendly.

Originally Posted by diablo

I think sellers should be given a template to work from when setting rules of an auction if they are going to use the auction section.

Most current terms are so vague that the seller can make them mean whatever they want them to mean when it suits them. Or they change them when it suits them to after the auction has ended - and there is no comeback.

When you are asking people to bid hundreds or indeed thousands of pounds for domains, I think it is totally unprofessional to not keep to the letter of what are after all your own rules.

All PM bids should be verifiable too

That was the partial aim of this thread - to see if a basic ruleset could be hammered out

Good point about the PM's - perhaps Admin could make it clear that PM's can or cannot be verified. If the former it could be alot of work, however the latter would make it clear that it is buyer beware, and IMHO hopefully would force everything to be public bidding