The Cameron Vetoe

[pred]

France have a history of collaberating with the Germans against their own people. Clearly they still do this.
Fortunately we don't.

[Sound]

Would be great if the UK could become more like Switzerland which is still independent and doesn't seem to have in anyway suffered from not being part of Europe or the Euro.
Switzerland is home to several large multinational corporations. The largest Swiss companies by revenue are Glencore, Nestlé, Novartis, Hoffmann-La Roche, ABB and Adecco.[80] Also notable are UBS AG, Zurich Financial Services, Credit Suisse, Swiss Re, and The Swatch Group. Switzerland is ranked as having one of the most powerful economies in the world
The Swiss Armed Forces, including the Land Forces and the Air Force, are composed of conscripts: professional soldiers constitute only about 5 percent of the military personnel, and all the rest are conscript male citizens aged from 20 to 34.
Switzerland also has no official state religion.

[GreyWing]

If we stay where we are then we are isolated in rule making.... that is why we can't stay where we are and everyone knows it. Cameron has played a blinder, he's looked friendly to the EU and made them look like they are thugs and bullies, the ideal pretext to leaving the EU completely.

Hopefully the coalition will now break up and he takes the country back to the electorate, with the lib dems and Labour both saying they would have signed up to being gang raped by the EU, the Conservatives will romp home.

Have a look at Norway and like Sound says Switzerland who are both not in the EU, both are rolling in cash, Norway have too much money they can't spend it because it would risk inflation.

By the way how biased are the BBC "Cameron Isolates UK from friends", what a joke of a reporting outfit they have become, the left's version of Fox News. Here is an interviewer that doesn't but in every 2 seconds with stupid comments they know nothing about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB8K9gLOmt0

[GreyWing]

An interesting one from the EU this week, Nick Griffin seconds the candidature of a conservative MEP to become president of the EU Parliament... One thing.... The guy is Asian Nirj Deva...

BNP supports Asian to become President of EU....

[pred]

Originally Posted by GreyWing

If we stay where we are then we are isolated in rule making.... that is why we can't stay where we are and everyone knows it. Cameron has played a blinder, he's looked friendly to the EU and made them look like they are thugs and bullies, the ideal pretext to leaving the EU completely.

Hopefully the coalition will now break up and he takes the country back to the electorate, with the lib dems and Labour both saying they would have signed up to being gang raped by the EU, the Conservatives will romp home.

Have a look at Norway and like Sound says Switzerland who are both not in the EU, both are rolling in cash, Norway have too much money they can't spend it because it would risk inflation.

By the way how biased are the BBC "Cameron Isolates UK from friends", what a joke of a reporting outfit they have become, the left's version of Fox News. Here is an interviewer that doesn't but in every 2 seconds with stupid comments they know nothing about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB8K9gLOmt0

agreed on all of that dude

however, hope Cameron doesn't think this will alone be enough and appease the majority wanting out of Europe and will get away with NOT holding a referendum
as Nige from ukip said, what he has done has now fed this
it must happen
it's insane there hasn't been a referendum on this many years ago before it got to this stage
you can vote online, and pay council tax online safely, so a referendum can be done online without costing the fortunes they claim
anyway it is a democratic necessity for things of national importance

I think the libdem politicians saying the public can't have a referndum on this are the worst
who the hell do they think they are
do they have any values left?

[GreyWing]

Originally Posted by pred

agreed dude

however, if Cameron thinks this will appease the majority wanting out of Europe and will get away with not holding a referendum

You, like I was last week are assuming that he wants to stay in the EU. I think he may be the smartest Euro sceptic out there and by appearing to be friendly to the EU he's done it the most damage.

He may have thought he couldn't get us out of the EU with a referendum as there was a chance some could have voted for it, now we might get out without a vote. If he meant to do it, that is very smart.

His intentions have got me stumped to be honest, as Coca Cola once said "we ain't that smart and we ain't that dumb". Which one is Cameron???

[pred]

clegg will be his biggest problem with this

now, if cameron starts treating the yanks the way they should be then i may even start liking him
sick of dancing to their tune and joining them on their illegal violent globetrotting exploits
sadly i fear we will be up their arse with whats going on in iran

what is good though is cameron is pulling more troops than planned out of afghanistan and bringing them home

[Sean]

This is a major stitch-up of the other 24 co-signatories by the Germans and the French. The French banking system is starring into an abyss and IF they manage to set-up a bailout fund (I don't think they will), you can guarantee that it will be used to prop up French banks (by lending to Greece who will pay back the 30bn Euros they owe French banks etc..) and once that is sorted the Greeks will most definitely break the new fiscal rules (they can't not) and the Euro can then be let go with the 26 footing the bill because they've guaranteed the loans.

Germany have the second largest manufacturing economy in the World, in large part because they've been selling BMW's, trains, printing presses and nuclear power stations etc.. to other Eurozone countries with parity. How on Gods planet can Greece and Ireland's currency have parity with Germany's? In real World economics it can't but we haven't been living in the real World.

[BREWSTERS]

Originally Posted by Edwin

Actually, Europe as a whole doesn't care much. The sums involved in any "Euro bailout" and subsequent rebuilding of pan-European economies are orders of magnitude larger than what the UK contributes to the EU, so the UK's subsidy of the EU is as important as an individual drop in a bucket of water. The events of the last 48 hours or so have demonstrated how little the UK matters - instead of saying "ok, let's talk about things" the collective reaction from the rest of the EU to David Cameron's ultimatum has been "Fine, have fun on your own".

Funny how 2 people can view the same thing but see the opposite...it seems to me that the French and Germans are sulking over the veto. And our contribution to the EU coffers of approx £4billion a year may seem like a drop in a bucket re the bailout fund, but that isn't where that money goes. Why should we help to bail out someone elses currency?

Originally Posted by Edwin

High value manufacturing requires very specific skills, and once that skillset is lost (e.g. by the disappearance of a once-strong domestic industry) it can't suddenly be re-conjured up out of thin air. If anything, the UK will become at best the place that China outsources some of its European production (using largely imported skills and technologies, and UK labour to do the grunt work - in a stark reversal of the situation 10-15 years ago) and of course as soon as somewhere else undercuts the UK those jobs will all melt away again.

Doesn't take long to skill up at all. China can take a bare piece of land in the middle of no-where, and in 12 months have multiple factories churning out product using labour from rural areas - largely young women.

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by BREWSTERS

Doesn't take long to skill up at all. China can take a bare piece of land in the middle of no-where, and in 12 months have multiple factories churning out product using labour from rural areas - largely young women.

Whereas in the UK they'd be on to the 7th round of meetings about planning feasibility studies, while arguing with pressure groups about the destruction of the countryside and the potential damage to the lesser spotted newt ecosystem.

It's all very well to point to other countries (e.g. Switzerland, China etc.) and what they're doing, but if their way of doing business is genuinely NOT copyable because the UK is "too different" (which it usually is, because of vested interests, inertia, provincialism and "not-invented-here-ness") then the comparison breaks down at the first hurdle.