At the risk of being lambasted by all and sundry, might I respectfully suggest that if somebody posts a message on this forum seeking 'advice' on how to obtain a domain name from an existing registrant without buying it from them, they are not a friend of yours and mine? Has it not occurred to anyone that such a person is the 'enemy' of a domainer and should not therefore be aided and abetted by members of a forum set up to help domainers? Would you really hand a knife to someone who has designs on stabbing you in the back? Then why oh why would you readily give information to someone who wants to 'steal' a domain name from one of your own? Think about it. The person you are giving helpful advice to could be trying to steal a name that is registered to you. A name that you registered because you had the foresight to register it when the person now seeking advice, didn't. I'm sure there is not a domainer using this forum who has not at some point purchased a domain name from an existing registrant for a sum far in excess of the original registration fee. Let these 'advice seekers' do the same, or at the very least, do not help them to load the gun that might one day be pointing at you!