Domain Manage

Domain Transfer

Discussion in 'Nominet General Information' started by retired_member16, May 15, 2006.

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  1. retired_member16

    retired_member16 Banned

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    When I request domain transfer forms why do Nominet

    a) request my name?
    b) request the address that the forms should be sent too?

    Should they not just send to whatever name/address is listed in the whois?
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. admin Spain

    admin Administrator Staff Member

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    Interesting point, otherwise they could fall into the wrong hands.

    Maybe it is because some whois records show duff information.
     
  4. retired_member27

    retired_member27 Retired Member

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    I sold a domain to a well know internet company years ago and to my amazement they had ordered the Nominet form, filled it in and sent it to me. I thought that wasn't possible but apparently it is.
     
  5. bb99 United Kingdom

    bb99 Well-Known Member

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    Aye, it is possible for anyone to request a transfer form for any domain.

    Anybody want to really give the system a test by asking for a transfer form for nominet.org.uk??
     
  6. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    For the sake of clarity, the domain name transfer procedure is set up to protect the legal registrant and the person the domain name is being transferred to. Nominet has to (by law) establish beyond reasonable doubt who is asking for the transfer and who is accepting it. If (as admin has hinted) there is wrong information in the whois record, then it is doubly important that Nominet establish who is legally entitled to the domain.

    The requirements in a domain name transfer are legally binding and if Nominet makes a mistake and gives someone else's domain name away to a usurper, then Nominet could quite rightly be held to account for such a mistake.

    Whilst the procedure may look a bit austere, it is there to protect YOUR rights as a registant, and the rights of the party taking over the domain.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
    [PAB Member]
     
  7. retired_member6

    retired_member6 Banned

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  8. bb99 United Kingdom

    bb99 Well-Known Member

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    I think you've misunderstood James... The point is that Nominet will send out a transfer form for any domain to anybody that asks for one.

    Hopefully the Nominet transfer process itself will prevent any foul play - but still, sending out transfer forms to anyone who asks does in itself increase the risk that a fraudulent transfer will occur later down the line.
     
  9. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I've commented about this before on here. Make an advanced search on this forum for the key word "transfer" together with my username "invincible". Then read my comments in both the "snocap.co.uk stolen from me?" and "The tag for my domain name has been changed without my permission" threads. Domain Names have been "stolen" by people performing fraudulent transfers in the past. I have argued that paper based transfers are possibly less secure then electronic ones because anyone can request the paperwork, complete it and sign it. Nominet don't have any way of validating a signature and they don't phone or email you to check you really want to make the transfer.

    This is why I have stated that in order to protect your valuable domain names you should either operate your own tag or have a great relationship with your tag holder. The tag holder, not the Registrant, will be notified of any registrant change via a PGP signed email. If you run your own tag, and someone does this, you can act immediately. If your domain names are on someone elses tag, the first you might know about a false transfer is when you WHOIS the domain name or try to make use of it somehow. If you've parked the domain name somewhere, you might not notice for ages. I think this is dreadful.
     
  10. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    I didn't misunderstand per se but I guess I confused the issue by just stating the procedure. In reply to your specific point about preventing foul play, Nominet say they; "rigorously check the authenticity of any transfer between domain name holders. Nominet carefully checks that the transfer request is genuine and that the correct authority has been given. It is vital, therefore, that registrants ensure that all the information requested on the transfer form is provided correctly in order to avoid delays in processing requests".

    Further details here:
    http://www.nic.uk/registrants/maintain/transfer/form/

    I hope that clarifies the issue of security and foul play?

    Regards
    James Conaghan
    [PAB Member]
     
  11. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    I checked your comments and those of "bobby sands" who says he lost the domain; but unfortunately there are very few facts to go on in the thread. Someone mentioned that Nominet had supplied the facts regarding this transfer but that it would not be prudent to post them here.

    My own experience (and that of some clients) has been that electronic transfers are far more prone to fraud than paper ones. IMHO it is much too easy for a reseller to go into their account with opensrs or another Top Level Registrar and change the registrant name (on a .COM) to themselves; and getting a fraudulently transferred .COM back is a lot more hassle than getting a .CO.UK one back. Sticking my neck out a bit (cos I haven't checked with dah management) I would say if you make Nominet aware that a fraudulent transfer has taken place, they will act immediately to correct the situation and if they didn't, I'd want to know why. However, see my comments below!

    A tag holder is supposed to check the validity of each Tag Transfer request. Some do this by letter or fax, others may allow username/password access to an online system, and others by 'email of record'. Theoretically, if you keep your whois (contact) information up to date, this goes a long way to protecting your registrations. Whilst I agree that any fraudulent transfer is "dreadful", it's one of those issues where I'd need more evidence to suggest how best to combat the problem.

    However, some of the problems I have personally encountered are where the current registrant hasn't (for whatever reason) updated the registrant field or the contact details. Legally, the person in the registrant field; whether they have sold on a domain name or not; can claim it back at any time. Then it's a court battle to decide if it was actually sold on in the first place because the person legally entitled to hold the registration is the one named in the registrant field.

    This is why it is essential that domain names that are 'sold on' are transferred correctly so that the person buying it is actually cited as the registrant. I am referring back to what I was told about "sales" of domain names under 100 quid being accomplished simply by tag transfer, and not your actual proper 30 quid domain name process. Anyone doing it, is leaving the new registrant (whom they extracted said 100 quid from) open to all sorts of problems in the future and all for the want of a 30 quid transfer.

    Them's the facts guys, so if you're doing it, please think twice before doing it again; cos sure as eggs are eggs, an accident waiting to happen eventually happens; and someone will eventually get sued over the practice; and all for the want of a 30 quid transfer. :cool:

    Regards
    James Conaghan
    [PAB Member]
     
  12. Jay Daley New Zealand

    Jay Daley Active Member

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    There are a number of circumstances when the transfer form is requested by the new potential registrant, not the current registrant.
     
  13. retired_member16

    retired_member16 Banned

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  14. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    Not if the procedure is followed by Nominet and both parties are who they say they are. Nominet has a responsibility to the registrant of record to ensure a request is bona fide and not fraudulent.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
    [PAB Member]
     
  15. Jack_the_hat

    Jack_the_hat Member

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    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2006
  16. paul

    paul Well-Known Member

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    I do this all the time, if I'm buying from someone who is unfamiliar with the transfer process, I'll often request the transfer forms be sent to me first.

    I then fill in my part, mark which parts the seller has to fill in and often send them a stamped addressed envelope for Nominet. I also send them instructions telling them what they have to do.

    Makes the whole transfer process much quicker and if you are buying for a small amount it reduces the chance the seller will pull out of the deal.


    Paul




    Local Shops Adult DVDs HPI Check Domains
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
  17. retired_member16

    retired_member16 Banned

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    So I could ask the purchaser of my domain to get the forms emailed to him

    Get him to sign my signature.

    Get him to knock up a quick letter giving my thumbs up for the transfer.

    Get him to sign his bits.

    Get him to send it off.

    Because im not going to kick up a fuss as its all above board, then Nominet will never query it and I dont have to get off my fat arse to start signing whole forests worth of paper.

    Have I missed something?
     
  18. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    Have you missed something? How about, nothing's for nothing? ;)

    Regards
    James Conaghan
    [PAB Member]
     
  19. retired_member6

    retired_member6 Banned

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    He's got a point, nominet may as well do it all by fax if the person buying can order a form - as it obviously doesn't need to go to the right address.
     
  20. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    you can fax forms :)
     
  21. retired_member6

    retired_member6 Banned

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    So it can all be done by fax?

    All nominet needs is a stationary department, sell packs of 10/20/50 transfer forms and job done, buyer can be faxed on other side of world, seller sorts himself out, both fax nominet, they match forms, all info dealt with in less than an hour at buyer/seller end, then all that's needed is nominet match forms and job done.

    Obviously the only delay is waiting for buyer's money to clear, otherwise forms can be sorted directly after. So where's the secure aspect by doing it via post then? is it just the hassle that puts those off who would do harm?
     
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