Domain Manage

It's getting hard isn't it?

Discussion in 'Domain Research' started by Brassneck, Apr 1, 2011.

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  1. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    I am seeing loads of for sale threads at giveaway prices for half-decent names which are generating few if any sales. I've been struggling to shift stuff that was easy to shift 12 months ago.

    I am seeing very few sales on Sedo. Lots of the recent auction names went unsold.

    There are only 2 domains currently with bids on domainlore and about 10 in hidden gem section. There have been many more at times.

    It will be interesting to see how things pan out from now on. Seems to be that end users (in general) still haven't been lured into buying generic names, and with Google reportedly looking at other signals such as social buzz, branding etc to rank domains I am wondering if this is as good as it will ever get. Hope not, but am beginning to feel a bit negative.

    Stephen.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. brum

    brum Active Member

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    i noticed bing doesn't seem to be rating keyword heavy domains as much had some crappy sites on it listed on page one which have diasappeared and it seems to be more about good well linked sites on bing, more than it used to be.

    just something i noticed doesn't really seem to hvae affected google at the moment .

    maybe just my crap sites ... lol !!!!
     
  4. figleaf007 United Kingdom

    figleaf007 Active Member

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    There is an elephant in the room which I'm not sure too many have gone into here and that's this;

    http://www.seobook.com/googles-matt-cutts-talks-down-keyword-domain-names

    If google are going to stop giving keywords an advantage, then the domain business is naturally going to be affected. It's not going to go completely, this week I sold my first parked domain for three figures, so people still want the right name. Ironically, it probably wouldn't have gone for bargain basement on here.

    But I think a combination of the economy and this little blow by Mr Cutts has affected the market.

    As a side point, it's not just domaining, I sell vinyl on ebay and Beatles records getting 30 quid a couple of years ago are now going for a couple of quid. Everyone wants a cleearout and more income, not spending and shouldering too many 'assets'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  5. foz

    foz Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    My hunch that wholesale buying is down, is people are saving up their £££ for any potential .uk short released domains that maybe leftover for the public to participate in.
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Of course Google isn't going to STOP boosting exact match domains. They're still a fantastic signal of quality (amongst many others) as they're one indicator that the company's serious about its online presence and willing to invest accordingly (especially for the solid 1-word to 3-word commercial keyphrases) and plenty of "real" businesses already make great use of exact match domains.

    But they may - indeed probably just have - turn the "benefit dial" down a little, to stop keyword1keyword2-keyword3-keyword4.co.uk domains and the like cluttering up the search results with spammy poor quality mini-sites.

    Exact match domains will ALWAYS bring PPC benefits, because that's down to visitor psychology (exact match = more clicks, tested and proven) and not to Google's algorithm.

    They'll also ALWAYS remain relevant in every offline situation, from TV and radio ads to billboards, posters, tradeshow displays, magazine and newspaper ads, etc. etc. etc.

    Oh, and of course nothing will take away from the CREDIBILITY of having a great URL when talking to existing and potential customers, handing out your business cards, telling people your email address, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  7. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

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    Solid names will always sell for good money, no matter what is happening elsewhere - kitchen-doors.co.uk is a prime example
     
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Incidentally, for me March (at a smidge under £10,000) was better than February, which was better than January.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  9. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    Not sure anybody could predict that sort of value. I have seen dozens of similar hyphenated names in the bargain threads that nobody wants to touch. I would imagine a fair few of us would have accepted low £XXX if we had that name.

    Stephen.
     
  10. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

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    I agree - that was a shock to most people. What I mean is though, solid keyword names (not niche) will always sell for good money, regardless of the reseller market or 'recession'
     
  11. figleaf007 United Kingdom

    figleaf007 Active Member

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    I think you are right Edwin, but if the dial has been turned down on the SEO benefits, the affiliate/domainer relationship is affected. I buy domains to both sell to domainers/others and develop for affililiate sites, and continue to do so.

    I also buy domains from domainers to develop into affiliate sites. Suddenly, my propensity to do this is turned right down. An example, Edwin is selling bluewidgets co uk for £500 but I can get widgetfinder co uk for free to reg. That's £500 I can spend on optimising a site that is competing on the same SEO terms as bluewidgets co uk. The SEO opportunity cost of the exact keyword name has gone, and therefore my money is better spent on the site optimisation.

    Now, if I have a big budget and building a brand, then yes, I will still go for the exact match if I can, but if I can save myself £500 on a site I'm just looking to optimise and can spend elsewhere, that seems like a sensible option, especially in this economy.
     
  12. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    Think we all agree with that, however it only applies to a tiny percentage of what we have registered.

    In the past I knew that I could catch or free reg for a £5 and most likely pass any of those on for £50 for a quick profit, with some getting 4 figures if I was particularly lucky. Not being able to turn over names quickly, or not being able to get at least reg fee back if I decide to let them drop makes a big difference to my business model.

    Maybe we are going to start seeing the registry decline in size for the first time?

    Stephen.
     
  13. gregfindley

    gregfindley Active Member

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    It's definitely not gone!!
    Just turned down a little.

    If you have an exact match and build good content & links, it will still give you a big advantage over competitors, be that in the link anchor text, the CTR from SERPs, the options for PPC, offline branding, resale potential, the list goes on.
     
  14. julian United Kingdom

    julian Banned

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    I think there's a bit of waiting going on - perhaps people want to see how the serps pan out in the next few months and are holding back on buying expensive 'exact match' (honks up a big greener and spits in the bin - I hate that term) domains and even £10 disposable .org.uk churn and burns are taking a hit like Stephen says.

    <rant>
    And another thing, all this google panda / farmer, matt cutts shit makes me puke. Its total boll@x!!! I've been doing this shit since 1997 (and I can tell you i'm sick of it :cry:) - the main g rules are just the same with a few tweeks you have to aware of.
    <rant />
     
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    I can see how it will affect the £xx and low £xxx domainer-to-domainer and domainer-to-affiliate market, definitely. Doesn't really have much impact (if any) on end-user sales though, so it's really down to what % of your sales go to end users.

    Couldn't agree more - I've been doing this since the late 90s and the basics hardly ever change.
     
  16. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    But the worrying thing is, apart from the real premium end of things, the end-user market does not seem to have grown.

    I have tried dozens of times to sell half-decent names perfectly matched to end-users and the success rate is tiny. I might be crap at selling, but if you look through the bargain threads there are loads of domains suitable for end-users that clearly are not finding their way into the hands of end-users.

    Edwin - I know you have done a lot of work to promote the virtues of generic domains, but I fear that businesses still don't understand the benefits and we are hardly any further forward than we were 5 years ago.

    Stephen.
     
  17. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    I think that's part of the problem. Some people undervalue domains to keep sales moving, so within the circles they deal buyers want names for next to nothing, result, harder to sell coupled with lower values.

    Quality domains quality buyers.

    You have to be prepared to hold names for 2, 5, 10 years, your job is not to sell domains but to find appropriate buyers. If the objective is just to sell the domain then the price, if it sells at all, will be low. Do you sell 3 domains in a period for 10k each or 300 domains at £100 each, I know which I prefer.
     
  18. cc976a

    cc976a Well-Known Member

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    I think most, unless dealing with prime genetics are seeing a decline in sales and interest for 2-3 keyword match names.

    Google's update will change a mindset for those looking at £xxx price domains and looking to capitalise on mostly SE and online traffic and will make them think twice. I am more of a developer than a domainer per se and from a development point of view if I was going to build a brand with £xxx,xxx spend then I'd want the exact.

    There are a lot that would be selling to domainers, affiliaters and SEO companies looking to build minisites to help promote the big brand - but as someone points out who will need to spend £xxx on a keyword domain for this purpose (which is still big business) when you can take a FTR and spend the rest on PPC, link building, content etc... which appears to now play a more important role than an exact match

    Have to say after the update 5 out of 5 of my sites dropped and were focussing on either exact or partial keyword match. Since that point 2 have returned to normal position - and 2 no-where to be seen in the SERPS (although wasn't doing anything naughty with these). To test I put up a one page minisite with good info for an exact match domain for a keyword with over 1,000 exacts and I'm in 7th spot within a few days for the keyword (admittedly competition not overly fierce but exists) - maybe hope left!

    In terms of sales my personal issue is finding businesses that want to step outside their own brand to build a second - even if have an exact match keyword domain perfect for their business.......finding startups who would be more susceptible is more tricky!!....anyone with any tips?
     
  19. Bailey United Kingdom

    Bailey Well-Known Member

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    From the general comments already made, there is at least a grasp that everything isn't quite as it should be in the UK market. This is particularly true if you look at the global domain market and apply an appropriate downsized model for the UK. To my understanding both the expectations and reality of the UK domain market aren't holding-up.

    I have only really been active on the UK scene for a little under two years (my registrations go back to 1999 though) Given that my purchases have been across the board. My realitive success in the Gtlds encouraged me to explore the UK market in greater death over the last 24 months and I have to say i'm somewhat surpised how the markets differ to a far greater extent then I ever imagined.

    My holdings across the couk/com are about 50/50 and obviously as I was registering domains across the board since 1999 I was picking up far better key words in the UK name space, but choose to largely ignore them (from a selling perspective) while I concentrated on my less desirable .com holdings.

    Two years on Acorn and in the UK market has certainly taught me to remain focused on my gtld holding. Even today i'm still trying to get my head around "why the two markets should differ to such an extreme ?"

    I have to accept I am late from the perspective of exploring the sales side of the UK market, but even today as I consolidate and reavaulate my domain holdings my emphasis is certainly switching back to the Global market.

    I don't wish to appear to be talking down the UK market. I always saw it as the potential 'jewel-in-the-crown' but that certainly isn't proving to be the case thus far. On a positive finish I do note that individuals that aren't part of the Acorn scene are not shortening their holdings - far from it. But, that could be due to the amount of bargains to be had
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  20. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

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    One thing that has always surprised me is individuals reaction to the difference in the .co.uk market compared to the .com market

    The UK has around 60 million population (utilising the .co.uk extn)

    The world has around 6.8 billion population (utilising the .com extn)

    With the .com market being so much bigger than the .co.uk market, is it hardly surprising that .com market is so fruitful when it appeals to a huge audience and not just a niche one ?
     
  21. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

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    Further to this, it could also be argued that on a pro rata scale, .co.uk domains are selling for alot more than .com domains overall

    golfholidays.co.uk £22.5k
    golfholidays.com £50k
     
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