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More than lucky

Discussion in 'Drop catching Domain Names' started by FC Domains, Jul 15, 2007.

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  1. FC Domains

    FC Domains Well-Known Member

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    If nobody else will, I'm going to stick my neck out here.

    It seems that a very limited number of TAGs are currently able to catch whatever names they want to. This is obviously statistically wrong. There must be something very screwed with Nominet's drop system, or an undocumented way of bypassing the Automation queue. It isn't really a minor matter, considering the £10Ks of domains being hoovered up.

    Whatever it certainly isn't operating as advertised and Nominet refuse to acknowledge this, or even reply to emails.

    I don't mind losing in a fair race, but I think some 'drugs testing' is called for here.
    The sums are easy. Each TAG should only be able to read the DAC every 200mS and then send an email in a tiny fraction of that time. The catches should be fairly evenly spread.
     
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  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. Slater United Kingdom

    Slater Active Member

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    I agree Colin.

    I have no doubt that the two top catchers are very bright guys and that they have put an awful lot of time and money into catching domains.

    Catchers who have put a a large ammount of time into their scripts will deservedly catch better quality names, however for a system that is suposedly random in it's nature, a situation shouldn't arise, as it has for the last 12 months where 2 TAGS have a total monopoly on the top names.

    The TAGS in question have clearly found an exploitable quirk in the Nominet systems and I don't blame them at all for exploiting it, I know I would.

    It's Nominet who should be sorting out their drop systems instead of burying their heads in the sand and refusing to accept that they have an issue.

    Mark.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  4. tifosi United Kingdom

    tifosi Well-Known Member

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    It'll be curious to see if the real-time mechanisms of the EPP will bypass the obvious 'quirk' of the automaton.

    Certainly it will should get round any pre-loading of the automaton registration queue.

    S
     
  5. renesisx

    renesisx Active Member

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    I don't understand what you mean by "pre-loading"?

    You can go faster than 200ms. 200ms would be the minimum if you spread your full quota over a single day. You can go as fast as 65ms in bursts.

    I'm betting those guys have managed to get multiple tags. If they had 10 or 20 tags each, then they'd be able to hit the DAC at insane speeds.
     
  6. Slater United Kingdom

    Slater Active Member

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    You can fire off up to 1000 dac requests per minute, if you wanted to you could concentrate them into 10 seconds every minute, you'd have to be lucky though to have the domain fall in that time slot, I've tried this on a couple of occasions and even when the name has dropped in the time slot and I've been hitting the DAC at 100 queeries per second I've still been beaten by one of the top TAGS.

    Maybe there are catchers out their that use multiple DAC accounts to gain an advantage, however I'm certain that this is not the case in regards to the top 2 catchers.
     
  7. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Maybe they don't even read the response they're getting back from Nominet, but just measure its size? I'm just brainstorming out loud here, but it might be much faster to compare the number of bytes in a message than to search it for a string.
     
  8. SecNam

    SecNam Moderator Staff Member

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    nominet wont(cant) do anything as they dont know what they are looking for. AS previous said, to the top catchers well done on pulling the wool over the eyes of a multi-million pound business whos is "at the cutting edge" of technology.

    and if nominet do say there is something wrong they cant admit it as they their would be sues galore from other catchers as they insist there system/s are random :). They would rather concentrate on other services like DRS, PRSS, AWARDS etc

    over to you nominet ( AGAIN ), but im not holding my breath on an answer or reply from them.


     
  9. FC Domains

    FC Domains Well-Known Member

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    Thinking it through. DAC is already being hit by dozens of other TAGS, all of the time. So I don't think that multiple accounts would work. By the time DAC says a domain is available, it must already be too late to put a request in the queue.

    This only leaves the option of either jumping the queue, or Nominets 'random' drops being predictable to a fraction of a second.

    Either way it would be very easy for Nominet to spot. I just don't understand why they ignore this and worse still refuse to respond.
     
  10. jonno United Kingdom

    jonno Active Member

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    ahh the beginning of the usual bi-monthly bitching thread :) lol

    nothing at all has changed since the last one, just to save everyones time!

    the reason nominet haven't fixed anything is because there isn't anything to fix!
     
  11. SecNam

    SecNam Moderator Staff Member

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    I dont think people are here to bitch, just alot of scratching heads :) and nominets lack of communication.
     
  12. njf United Kingdom

    njf Active Member

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    Jonno and Denys know a technique we don't. Its frustrating - but the technique doesn't necessarily exploit a problem with Nominet's sytem (like 303s) - just something we have not figured out. Cest la vie.

    I'm ready to look at the answers in the back of the book: Jonno, if EPP blows it out of the water - promise to give a lecture on the technique?! Nick.
     
  13. keys United Kingdom

    keys Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Why not accept defeat and bow to Vizzy's rule co.uk

    (see nameservers)
     
  14. FC Domains

    FC Domains Well-Known Member

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    And that's the reasoned response? There's nothing to fix, because you say so.

    The statistics scream that something is wrong. If nothing is wrong then maybe Nominet could tell us that they have looked at the timings on a few drops and it always looks right. ie a DAC request that showed a domain available and then an Automation request completed, registering the domain.
     
  15. tifosi United Kingdom

    tifosi Well-Known Member

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    pre-loading the automaton queue, not the dac queue - though that is possible in batch requests the responses would not show the 'pull' time but the 'push' time.

    Loading the automaton means trying to get the email that is first read when the domain is available. It's the way the pre-dac 1000 shots per day used to work.

    Interesting that when there was disruption in the automaton service then the top two had the same chance as everyone else and Colin caught the top domains. Soons as normal service was resumed vizzy and jonno started to clear up again...

    read into that what you will.

    BTW.. Unless you lot start to show more interest in nom-tech & nom-steer all this is going to be academic.

    S
     
  16. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    Those catching consistantly say it is due to their skill.

    Those not catching always says 'something is up'.

    The amusing bit is when the complainers become the catchers and vice versa :)

    Another point to note is person A's fiver is worth the same as person B's to Nominet.

    Very true.

    A Wait List style system could be the answer, however what implementation would be another question :)
     
  17. renesisx

    renesisx Active Member

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    Hey, they let you have a pretty good one today FC. They must have felt bad for you and thrown you a crumb ;)
     
  18. Rich United Kingdom

    Rich Active Member

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    There are delays on the automaton again which always levels the playing field
     
  19. SecNam

    SecNam Moderator Staff Member

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    i wish i was on their field its sounds great, my back garden is too small now :)
     
  20. renesisx

    renesisx Active Member

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    Are those delays on the input though? I noticed it was taking hours for my ERROR emails to arrive today, but I assume that was just on the output queue.
     
  21. paul

    paul Well-Known Member

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    Is there a clue in the fact that they don't do very well when there is a delay in the automaton?
     
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