Domain Manage

org.uk

Discussion in 'General Board' started by scooter, Oct 10, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Posts:
    2,022
    Likes Received:
    41
    I don't think there is any disputing that org.uk is now comming of age .... between domainers.

    What about end user market? (granted a sale to another domainer is in reality an end user if they take and develop)

    Anyone had any success selling to business? or are their heads still in the sand? My experience is they are not ready but the same can still be said for trying to sell a prime generic .co.uk to business. The majority of them are still not ready :confused: They still do not get it. I find it quite amazing and dismaying.

    They think they know better. In reality they do not. It is quite alarming.

    ,
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
     
  3. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Posts:
    2,022
    Likes Received:
    41
  4. expertc

    expertc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    16
    Thanks for quoting my thread, mate. I've sold 3 org's in the last 10 days, ALL to domainers. In the whole history I only had ONE end-user sale (OK it was a 2K sale, much higher than to a fellow domainer) - that's it.

    I still come across statements like: "Wow, this <crappiestname>.co.uk sounds terrific. It is so brandable, etc...". Brandable my a***. People simply don't understand how much it costs in extras to create a brand.

    We, who deal in eCommerce, do understand how the SE works, how people search, what the exact is. Explaining this in a laymen terms is a pain.

    Broker who takes a domain from me at a wholesale price and then resells it to an end user doesn't earn his money in an easy way (well, at least that what I think).

    If I go to an end user with the name like the one above and say: "Look, give me your 6 months net advertising budget and get a name" then he should start kissing my feet. But he would simply laugh. This is the eCommerce reality, I am afraid.

    Well, domain with 35 quid CPC and more than 1000 searches per month can be estimated (this is my internal calculation) as 1% searches times CPC per month, giving you 350 and then times 12 = 4,200 pounds. Does it look like a fair price? For me - it does. Can I sell it at that price? Anyone? Helooo... :D
     
  5. GreyWing

    GreyWing Retired Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    59
    You might see £3.00 out of a £35 CPC, certainily won't see anything above £5 once Google have taken their cut.

    But fact is that you are still going to get leakage to the .co.uk name on type-ins. So you are ultimately going to have to be red hot at seo to get it in google and make it worth your while. I'm not .org.uk bashing as I have a few, but the ones who are buying them at the minute are people with a stratergy for them, a team, set up to get them seo'd and know how to monetize them.

    People on here don't have that set up on a whole and that is why they ain't selling at anything like they should. You might pick up one or two for £50-£200 then there is no middle ground, your next
    step up is £4k+ because you realise you have an end user who has a team like above and a stratergy for it.

    That big gap in the middle ground is what needs to be filled before they come mainstream.
     
  6. expertc

    expertc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    16
    Agree, but I was talking about the end user (in this case actual service supplier) who pays that £35 to G, not to me. If the end user understands that with a tiny bit of SEO including probably anchored links from his established sites (people who offer Commercial Insurance do have established sites!) and org.uk can go as high as co.uk even with the leakage.

    The point is - somehow end users have no idea whatsoever about all these simple things. This understanding would create a niche between 500 and 4K+ that you are mentioning.
     
  7. Pred United Kingdom

    Pred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Posts:
    7,208
    Likes Received:
    73
    what about the .com leakage? and performance?

    most on here don't get that and don't want to get that :cool:
    unfashionable on acorn to say but true

    hundreds of cctlds and tlds and stlds lumped in together, but only one top performer in my books

    anyone criticising the .org.uk leakage to .co.uk have to eat humble pie and accept it to .com
    can't say one without accepting other

    although, these days if a site is great it will get remembered and bookmarked anyway
    so with more internet savvy users i would say, the leakage is less true now than ever

    so, basic thing is a .co.uk is more brandable than a .org.uk and more well known as an extension. very true
    .org.uk are great for building sites and bigging up the main site or developing and selling to endusers
    however, if you want to be big, and if you want to be something, you may as well want to be global. why go with a cctld?

    personally i would never lump a load of dough into marketing a cctld. not saying you can't make a lot of money, but why think in the confines of this small island?
    best to have both.
     
  8. GreyWing

    GreyWing Retired Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    59
    Do you mean .co.uk leaking to .com or .com leaking to .co.uk's?

    If I'm reading you right and saying .co.uk's are leaking to .com's I'd disagree with that for mainly UK focusing websites. I would have said that leaking would have ceased about 4-5 years ago and indeed reversed to .com's leaking to .co.uk's

    Of course the gambling and adult websites will lose out to the international customer base of a .com but the majority of websites that use .co.uk imo don't suffer any leakage.
     
  9. accelerator United Kingdom

    accelerator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    7,398
    Likes Received:
    109
    I think comments like this are a bit unfair. We are all internet developers that live and breathe domains, yet for a commercial company figures that seem significant to us are actually very insignificant to them in the overall scheme of things, i.e. they see bigger returns on other kinds of activity. Ultimately it's the market that gives the domain a value, and if no-one wants to buy if for your price, then it's not worth as much as you hoped.

    Rgds
     
  10. julian United Kingdom

    julian Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2007
    Posts:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    42
    ..traffic leakage is the most bottom of the pile concern when developing a .org. or .co.uk domain for me. It means nothing if you know what your limitations are and what you want to achieve within a market.

    I run .org.uk sites with 6fig turnovers, having the .co.uk would be nice but not that much better - now having the .com however would probably make a difference long term. I also think if you want to build a brand a generic is not the way to go either.

    I say again I believe in the 80/20 rule - after 10 years doing this crap I find most users don't give a shit... look at the title in serps rather than the url and use what they're given...we as domainers think too deeply... no one gives shit anymore - do they?


     
  11. expertc

    expertc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    16
    For a longtail product specific any leakage would be last thing for me to worry about. It's pure SEO/SERPs.
     
  12. GreyWing

    GreyWing Retired Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    59
    Nope of course you reg a name for £6 or anything upto £200 then you develop at minimum cost, leakage isn't going to be an issue. But if you are going to spend £5k+, I guarantee you that leakage becomes an issue.

    Not saying whether .org.uk are a safe bet to develop or not, just commenting on the end user resale value.
     
  13. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Posts:
    2,022
    Likes Received:
    41

    I honestly don't think it is unfair. It is exactly the commercial companies I am talking about. The ones that employ (in house or out house) internet developers for their business. They are the ones who are paid to get the content right and get their company ranking. The very ones who are paying out £35 a click because they don't rank. But they, like us should know their stuff. In fact, they should know it better as they are being paid to know it.


    they see bigger returns on other kinds of activity
    I'm sure they do, but i'm only talking about their internet activity. Surely the ultimate goal is to be no1? or as close as possible.

    If it's £35 per click and its costing them £350 a day for only 10 prospects, that equates to over £127,000 per anum. That is what I call massive leakage and commercial madness.

    For a one off investment they have the real chance of at minimum, saving their company £127,000 per year, every year. I know there will be exceptions but to me, it is just does not make commercial sense at all.

    I bought my first domain back in 1999 and my vision was that within 8yrs companies would be buying out other companies. Not for their net worth but purely for their prime, generic domain name. I got that one well wrong! :cool:


    .
     
  14. expertc

    expertc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    16
    Nope, you probably don't understand the psychology of large multinationals or financial companies. I've done lots of work for them so I know it firsthand. They never mind paying this 127K to G, it's nothing for them. The idea is, they are paying to G - someone equal to them. But they will not pay you even a 7K to save 120 grand! First of all, you are not "equal" and they wouldn't buy from you, and second if their competition pays to G and they show on the sponsored page, somehow they will feel inferior if their advert would not be there. It's difficult to explain, but psychology is similar to one of the teenager who would always prefer to buy a Converse from a Converse shop just to be seen buying this silly trainers and being in the shop and coming out of it, even if he/she can save 70% if buying them elsewhere.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. DomainManagement

    DomainManagement Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Posts:
    528
    Likes Received:
    5
    re org.uk

    Well what can one say , everyone has there own opinion and there own
    Experience too

    Domains are like a holidays there are many destinations and many different ways to travel to your destination and some like Florida whilst others swear by
    Spain some even will holiday in asia

    Dont you see there is no single correct way to play this industry its down to you

    take frank with his photo a .net and a great one to and pugyrobs iva.net

    i think this shows us that we should be open minded in our investments

    and good investments are were you can get great leverage against the cost price or time invested

    up the org.uk `s for leverage :p i must say that as i have so many ha ha

    but at the end of the day i have a online business that is page 1 position 1

    and to be honest the name is not great Granite4less.co.uk but the position is

    so if someone came along wanting to sell me a .org.uk at the top of the serp`s i would say yes please all day long its location , location, location

    so as a domain org.uk`s maybe be a little more difficult to sell sometimes

    but as a selling proposition, a website with a good serp ,needs less explaining

    to a end user, than a domain name, the website to a end user is a reality

    whilst the domain is a troublesome project with no guaranteed out come

    to a business guy that does not understand seo, social media marking video distribution etc etc

    up the org.uk the .net and .org

    i do believe that Loans.org sold for $500,000 :p and not a site either

    sorry for my grammar its shite

    best regards Steve
     
  16. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2007
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    86
    Yes I can also see this point, having done SEO for some big UK companies in the past, even when they reach number 1 for certain keywords, they would still pay for PPC on these exact same keywords - not to mop up the extra traffic, but to be seen to be doing the same as their competitors, so you are 100% correct as I have experienced it myself.

    Brilliant analogy of it - love it ! The £1 shop springs to mind too :)
     
  17. peter_w United Kingdom

    peter_w Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Posts:
    558
    Likes Received:
    18
    Bargain whoever bought that.
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    8,460
    Likes Received:
    261
    Some studies I've seen in the past suggest that having a top Ad ranking and a top regular search ranking will boost the CTR of both the ad AND the regular listing.

    In other words, if you're #1 organically, you can get more free traffic by also being a top-placed advertiser - and it will cost you less to be a top-placed advertiser than you would otherwise have to pay because your organic listing boosts the CTR of your ad.

    So for companies with a decent ad budget and a need for "all the traffic they can get" it's a no brainer to double-down in this way...
     
  19. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2007
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    86
    This is how I see the whole thing (unbiased hat on)

    The majority of businesses (small - medium) do not see the importance of domain name extensions or even understand them - it is almost as difficult to sell a .co.uk to an end user who doesn't understand, than it would be to sell him a .biz - it isn't the extension they don't understand, it is the domain name or internet game / value as a whole.

    Obviously it is horses for courses, and not everyone thinks the same, but one thing I will say is this - If you OR an end user were to buy a website OR domain name based on current google rankings, which would you buy :

    Option 1 - loans.org.uk at number 1 for loans for £250k

    OR

    Option 2 - loans.co.uk at number 2 for loans for £1m

    Granted it is a bit of an extreme example, but one which is conceivable at those levels.

    Common sense says that virtually anyone would buy the site at number 1 which is a quarter of the price with statistically 3x as much traffic as number 2 - anyone who says differently, shouldn't be in this game or doesn't understand basic business / google position value very well.

    Joe bloggs / most businesses (unless a pure big brand) would choose option 1 every time over option 2, as any business with any sense would be more interested in ROI than domain extensions everytime.
     
  20. domainseller200 United Kingdom

    domainseller200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2007
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    86
    Yes and they would also be paying lower cpc than their competitors, as naturally being 1 for the keyword, would mean their Q/S and CTR were much higher. and this would mean they can get top PPC rankings by spending less than others - another reason why SEO is a much better long term investment than PPC in more ways than one.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page