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Paypal chargeback/dispute question

Discussion in 'General Board' started by scooter, Jun 12, 2008.

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  1. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

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    My brother sold something (used) on ebay for a few hundred pounds. After the buyer had received it, they decided it was not what they thought it was. They claim the advert was misleading. The advert was not.

    Anyways, my brother has been in contact with the buyer and the buyer is threatening going to the small claims court. My brother is happy to do so.

    Today he received from paypal "New Significantly Not as Described Dispute" email. He will be following the advice and answering all questions.

    It also stated in the email
    Keep in mind that the funds associated with this payment may be considered 'Disputed' and not available for withdrawal until the case has been resolved.
    There are no funds in the Payal account. They were withdrawn a while ago.


    It also stated:
    the buyer may contact their card issuer about opening a chargeback.



    Well, my brother is adamant (because of the buyers bad attitude) that if anything, he is happy to go to court.



    So my questions are......
    1. As there are no funds in the paypal account, can paypal raid my brothers bank account to take the money out? (he would rather open another bank account than let this happen)

    2. If the customer did pay Paypal via c/card, is the chargeback not against Paypal? Again if this happens, is paypal able to raid his bank account to take the money back?


    He just wants his day in court should it get that far. He is adamant he will be handing no money back.



    Any help much appreciated.

    .
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. aZooZa

    aZooZa Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    PayPal are a law unto themselves. The first thing I'd do if I was your brother would be to get online or phone the bank and cancel the direct debit mandate for PayPal. As I understand it, they *will* attempt to get the funds back from the bank account.
     
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  4. WaftyCrank United Kingdom

    WaftyCrank Active Member

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    Also if the other party has raised a "not as described" dispute then Paypal should rule in your brothers favour as they have had the goods delivered.

    I doubt any dispute where goods have been delivered using an auction site like ebay would be accepted by a credit card company unless the goods were brand new and your brothers auction was selling the goods as a business.
     
  5. retired_member32

    retired_member32 Retired Member

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    the dispute is not about having the goods delivered,it is about the item is "not as described",all items sold new or old by law have to be fit for purpose,sold by a trader or not ,there was a big movement in law covering this about six months ago,i don't actually know what the item is but if it isn't has described and the buyer has an independent professional body to look and give a report the buyer will inform ebay and you will encounter a snatchback from paypal,let me look at the item just pm me and i will give you my opinion.

    mark
     
  6. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

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    The item was exactly as described. Fully working and with receipts. What the buyer failed to do was to ensure before purchasing if it would do what they wanted it to do. When they realised it did not, they started down the route they have decided to take.


    My brother is confident it will not get past the Paypal dispute stage but if it does, he just wants to ensure paypal do not raid his account. All he wants is his day in court.

    A big thank you to all who have posted here and via pm.

    .
     
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  7. retired_member32

    retired_member32 Retired Member

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    that is the buyer's problem then,just as long as he didn't put something in the listing and when the buyer received it it didn't work as described,when you sell something in ebay you sign a declaration to list it ,it is a declaration by the seller,he shouldn't have anything to worry about then.

    mark
     
  8. WaftyCrank United Kingdom

    WaftyCrank Active Member

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    First of all, not in paypals eyes. If they have received the item, that's where the dispute ends.
    Second consumer law only applies to traders (be it sole trader or company). You are responsible for checking the quality of goods for purchase when you are buying from a private seller.

    Therefore the credit card company cannot place a chargeback if they are honest because the customer has received their goods. The distance selling regs don't apply if the seller was a private individual. Therefore it is down to the consumer to check everything before parting with their cash.
     
  9. retired_member32

    retired_member32 Retired Member

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    consumer credit act 1979 sales of goods act.

    If these remedies are inappropriate, then you're entitled to a suitable price reduction, or to return the goods and get a refund (reduced to take account of any wear and tear).
    The act covers second-hand items and sales. But if you buy privately, your only entitlement to your money back is if the goods aren't 'as described'.
    If goods which are expected to last six months don't, it'll be presumed that the goods didn't conform to the contract at the time they were bought, unless the seller can prove to the contrary.
    In all other situations, it's for the consumer to prove their own case (that is, that the problem existed at the time of the contract). This will prove more difficult the longer you've had the goods. Subject to this, a consumer has six years from the time they buy something in which to make a claim.

    there is a new act(i'll ask the missus in the morning she's a lecturer in economics and law),i think it was passed last year covering solely private sales,about the delivery thing that is the consumer protection(distance selling regs 2000)which paypal touch upon,but i have had a snatchback when i received a laptop late,and reported it for "not fit for purpose",i got the laptop and the money in the end.

    mark
     
  10. WaftyCrank United Kingdom

    WaftyCrank Active Member

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    Again sale of goods act doesn't apply to private transactions where there is no business intent.
    I.e. if a customer sells his old laptop on ebay it is for the consumer to confirm the details are accurate by seeing the goods in advance.

    If the customer is buying from a business or sold trader then sale of goods act does apply.
     
  11. aZooZa

    aZooZa Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    This is complicated by the contracts that you enter into with eBay and PayPal. This extends to further realms than the Sale of Goods Act.
     
  12. WaftyCrank United Kingdom

    WaftyCrank Active Member

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    I fully agree. The issue is compounded but it would probably come down to a day in court (which is what is wanted) in order to determine the overall winner.
     
  13. retired_member32

    retired_member32 Retired Member

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    lifted from the bbc advice pages,i actually used this for a seller who sold a duff laptop and tried to hide from it he even cancelled his registration with ebay,the missus says it would be almost impossible to win using this but there is a auction law which i am looking into?,but yes you must sell the item "as described" new or used from a registered trader or private,i do believe the same as you and think paypal will not pay up if the goods are delivered,because you could drop the thing when it's delivered to the door and if it is valuable it should be insured(so paypal are let off again)but if you said the laptop was wifi enabled and it isn't then it is not "as described"

    "If these remedies are inappropriate, then you're entitled to a suitable price reduction, or to return the goods and get a refund (reduced to take account of any wear and tear).

    The act covers second-hand items and sales. But if you buy privately, your only entitlement to your money back is if the goods aren't 'as described'.

    If goods which are expected to last six months don't, it'll be presumed that the goods didn't conform to the contract at the time they were bought, unless the seller can prove to the contrary".





    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_goods.pdf
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/guides_to/law_goods.shtml
     
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