So, who caught the best 'THL'?

[anthony]

Most of the drops I've been watching have shown the .co.uk catcher also getting the .uk. But with today's drop of THL.co.uk, different catchers got lucky.

The question is, what do people think was the best catch as a result, the .uk or the .co.uk?

 

[Edwin]

The answer depends on whether the aim is a quick sale, or a hold-and-sale.

If a quick sale (timeframe: next few days, weeks or months) then probably the .co.uk

If a long term hold for the right end user buyer then probably the .uk

 

[arkvard]

Another 3 letter just gone to different catchers.

 

[DaveP]

EnterFirst are doing well last few days.. congrats.

 

[ian]

Getting very messy with the split on domains. Still think catching the .co.uk is for the best at the moment.

 

[grantw]

I don't know who the winner will be but the loser is the buyer who is now faced with a decision to either gamble on which extension will be best long term or pay twice.

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but direct.uk is dumbest idea ever and I think that the only way for Nominet to rectify this whole mess is to immediately announce the phasing out of .co.uk over the next five years (stop releasing .co.uk's that expire) and spend some of the surplus informing and educating existing registrants of .co.uk what will be happening.

Totally agree. Nominet are all about growth these days, nothing else.

I thought the new gtld 'threat' was just a poor exaggerated reason to push .uk through, but reading the board communique today, Nominet really do appear to believe that they're in direct competition with these bag of crap extensions that are going nowhere! Embarrassing!

Grant

 

[Sound]

The real winners from the launch of .uk is Nominet and now the clock is ticking and in five years this forum will be full of domainers complaining that they have the extra expense of registering all there .uk domains in their portfolios .

People may think that the new GTLD domain are crap but they are not aimed at just the uk market less than 5% of the population own a domain and they will be around longer than most domainers.

 

[Stephen]

What of the future?

The real winners from the launch of .uk is Nominet and now the clock is ticking and in five years this forum will be full of domainers complaining that they have the extra expense of registering all there .uk domains in their portfolios .

Their is time to have the pricing structure changed before the 5 year deadline comes along, for lower price cost on .co.uk and .uk combined.

If there is no pricing concession for joint ownership, I for one would be registering the .uk and letting the .co.uk drop on all low value domains, that are not set up as websites.
As I believe .uk will win in the long-term.

We will know better after Nominet sends out the 7,000,000 emails to those with a right to the .uk, if there is more take up and .uk usage.

There will be major cyber squatting in 5 years of .uk domains on .co.uk websites, if the poor take .uk up and knowledge about .uk continues.
But accept a lot can change in 5 years.

 

[ian]

But regardless of what happens, you can guarantee there will be a queue of domainers waiting to snap up .uk's in June 2019

 

[grantw]

People may think that the new GTLD domain are crap but they are not aimed at just the uk market less than 5% of the population own a domain and they will be around longer than most domainers.

I'm sure they will, along with .info, .biz, .mobi, .tel and every other new extension that was marketed to hell and went nowhere.

Anyway, Nominet had better batten down the hatches, .Fish has been released this week, a sure-fire threat to the existence of all ccTLDs!!!

Grant

 

[cannybagotudor]

I don't know who the winner will be but the loser is the buyer who is now faced with a decision to either gamble on which extension will be best long term or pay twice.

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but direct.uk is dumbest idea ever and I think that the only way for Nominet to rectify this whole mess is to immediately announce the phasing out of .co.uk over the next five years (stop releasing .co.uk's that expire) and spend some of the surplus informing and educating existing registrants of .co.uk what will be happening.

Let's be honest here, it's not the fact it's a dumb idea, it's the fact you will either have to pay double what you're paying now in 5 years or make a decision. Icann have been doing this for years, frankly I am shocked it took Nominet so long to click onto this revenue stream. I don't find domainers very helpful, some useful comments I've had are "there are plenty of other ways to make money sitting in front of a pc all day", as if I would be doing that. I have one domainer (not here, and is based elsewhere) who has been a great help, he's not scared of competition and realizes more people entering the market is natural, and indeed should be welcomed as it increases the awareness of the value of a good domain in the first place.

The top tier of domainers won't be concerned about these changes, they have a great portfolio and a balance between domains purchased and sold, which is what the business is all about. A few may be able to hoard without selling any, not many.

I actually doubt many non domainers have a clue about .uk until they go to register a domain and are faced with a decision. Nominet will not "phase out" .co.uk within 5 years you can be assured of that, the idea is laughable, I have never heard of a tld being phased out at all, the whole point of new tld's is to make more money from domain speculators because they will always go for the worded domains etc. Indeed, if Scotland vote for their independence what will a .co.uk or .uk be worth if Scotland creates it's own tld, which every country does.

There is no doubt in 5 years it will be a bonanza I think some domainers will drop some good domains onone or other tld, some good names will become available through people not renewing etc then the status quo will resume once more. Serious domainers will have effectively doubled the cost of their portfolio, so I'm sure many will have a review of what they feel is worth registering on both tld's. Some will reg both in fear of one becoming more valuable than the other. There cannot be many here who are surprised Nominet is releasing new tld's. Anyway food for thought.

 

[Edwin]

David, I don't believe it is a problem for dropcatchers, I do though believe that the fragmentation causes a major problem for end users.

David has explained why there will be very little fragmentation for the vast majority of end users (they will either be able to register both names or, except for the rare recently drop caught exception, they will be dealing with a single party able to supply both .co.uk and .uk forms) and I completely agree with his assessment.

It is pretty much a non issue (rounding error vs 10,000,000 domains) for anyone other than drop catchers. As another recent thread suggested, around 130 names are being caught a day so that's an absolute maximum of 130 new "split" pairs a day - in practice the number will be a lot lower than that because many catchers manage to get both. Again, a rounding error vs 10,000,000+ names.

 

[fuzzer]

So all dropcatchers really want is for newly registered '.co.uks' to come with the right to the equivalent .uk. Surely simple to make happen and a benefit to all?

Maybe nominet will miss out on the dropcaught .co.uks not immediatly having the .uk registered (probably only in the tens per day?)

but what they lose there - they will make up for with the stability of end-users trusting the market and not having to negotiate multiple deals to secure a brand name.

 

[Edwin]

Sean, my point was not about whether .uk introduces confusion or not, it's that the issue of .co.uk and .uk landing at two different places with two different domain sellers is a non-issue for anyone other than current drop catchers and the names they catch from now on.

If a seller has both the .uk and the .co.uk (which will be true in over 99% of cases for a very long time) then the only "risk" is to the buyer's wallet. There's no confusion issue since the buyer can use either domain (their choice) and redirect the other one to it - they're in the driving seat on if/when to move to .uk assuming that they paid for both names.

And if they're unwilling to buy both, well that's an entirely artificial problem brought about by the buyer's short-sightedness.

 

[fuzzer]

Direct.uk is here now and by far the best option would be to stop releasing .co.uk names back into the registry when they expire and aren't renewed. That wouldn't even need .co.uk to be phased out.

but that would take away the option of consumers buying a tried and tested extension and force them to use an extension that the general public aren't familiar with yet - therefore putting them on a par with all the other new ones.

no need to lose that advantage just yet... simplest solution - just give new .co.uks (regardless of whether the .org.uk etc. is registered) the right to the .uk too.

-nominet lose £50 a day from catchers
-but public perception is a lot less confusing

 

[Edwin]

Let's stop painting this "problem" as something it isn't!

Public perception is completely unaffected by the maximum 130 domains/day that potentially end up "unpaired". The chance of any member of the public coming across one of them is vanishingly small, like finding a needle in a stack of haystacks. Reminds me of the "millions may die" scaremongering headlines that seem to get rolled out every other day around every "danger" known to man, yet inevitably turn out to be laughably overblown.

On the other hand, the chance of it affecting a current dropcatcher is very high indeed - it is therefore, for all intents and purposes, purely a dropcatcher problem.

That's why David was saying you need to find a different angle (a real one, not a made up "threat" where no such threat exists) if you want to have any chance at all, however small, of shaping the debate.

 

[Edwin]

I disagree, I think it makes a clear statement about the future. If you have a .co.uk and want to keep it forever then you have that option but when a .co.uk gets deleted it's gone forever and only the .uk becomes available to register.

Yes, it makes a very clear statement: ".co.uk is a second class citizen, only .uk is worth having". How else will people interpret a gradual removal of .co.uk names from the marketplace? Damaging to .co.uk owners, damaging to Nominet's credibility, damaging to Nominet's current and future business. Completely unworkable.

 

[fuzzer]

Let's stop painting this "problem" as something it isn't!

okay - maybe I exaggerated slightly - but I don't see the benefit to anybody for this problem (mainly for dropcatchers *edit: and the end-users wishing to buy the split dropcaught domains*) to even exist?

 

[Stephen]

only 5 years then what ?

Let's stop painting this "problem" as something it isn't!

Public perception is completely unaffected by the maximum 130 domains/day that potentially end up "unpaired". The chance of any member of the public coming across one of them is vanishingly small, like finding a needle in a stack of haystacks. Reminds me of the "millions may die" scaremongering headlines that seem to get rolled out every other day around every "danger" known to man, yet inevitably turn out to be laughably overblown.

On the other hand, the chance of it affecting a current dropcatcher is very high indeed - it is therefore, for all intents and purposes, purely a dropcatcher problem.

That's why David was saying you need to find a different angle (a real one, not a made up "threat" where no such threat exists) if you want to have any chance at all, however small, of shaping the debate.

The threat is in 5 years, when the cyber squatting on .uk will be on a huge scale, unless the 7,000,000 emails about .uk rights has an effect and a increase in general understanding and awareness happens to businesses that rely on UK domains or Nominet change policy.

That reality has been created by Nominet.

5 years seems like a long way off, when only less than 1 month into .uk but it does not lessen that the point should be considered of adjusting future rights and cost structure of joint ownership
or gifting the .uk at the end and if the registrant lets it drop, then it least they have made a conscious decision about .uk and the risk of not owning both.

I'm keen on Nominet sharing data so the reality of what is happening with .uk can be understood, rather than marketing hype on how successful .uk is.

 

[AssetDomains]

Stephen I think the reality is that outside our tiny circle, this is essentially a none event. The most worrying thing for me is that no one knows where this is going, will one extension win out over the other, will we end up with such fragmentation that we essentially de-value both extensions. It's a huge gamble that benefits no one other than Nominet and drop catchers.

I think this is the point that should worry everyone involved in the uk namespace.

If you were in the market for a Premium name you would be forgiven for thinking the safest bet is to just try and get the .com at the moment.

I know I'm seriously thinking about moving the job site I soft launched on the .uk over to the .com before spending any money on promotion.