Enjoy unlimited access to all forum features for FREE! Optional upgrade available for extra perks.

Splitting .uk security issues from direct.uk

Discussion in '.UK Domain Name Consultations' started by Whois-Search, Feb 28, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Whois-Search

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2004
    Posts:
    1,967
    Likes Received:
    149
    In my personal opinion I think most members are now missing the point here in this announcement:
    http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/update-directuk

    You are being blinded by the "we have listened" rhetoric and the prospect of .uk being "shelved":
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21609406

    This is because Nominet's imaginative (poor communication yet again) statement leaves the reader uncertain about the future:

    If you actually leave this point to one side:

    Which without doubt will be used to launch .uk in 2014...

    All these measures could now be applied retrospectively to .co.uk etc:

    This is further highlighted by this statement:

    And the board report:

    Therefore if Nominet were to do as Alex Bligh suggests and split the security issue from direct.uk product itself:
    https://twitter.com/alexbligh/status/306800203023917056

    N.B. Which Nominet should have done in the first place instead of trying to use it as a marketing hook to get the civil servants on side

    How would you then like...

    • Being forced to buy DNSSEC for each of your .co.uk domains?
    • Or losing your registration if your an overseas registrant and have to pay for a UK proxy service?
    • Or the cost price of .co.uk etc goes up to meet additional security features?
    • Or require a pin code to validate your .co.uk registration?
    • Or losing your TAG if you can't meet "a level of service and data quality"?

    Let's not forget this consultation is going on at the same time:

    http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-parti...ussions-and-consultations/review-uk-registrar

    Therefore the fun has only just started comrades and this is not 'over' by a long way.

    :rolleyes:
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    IWA Meetup
     
  3. foz

    foz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2006
    Posts:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    36
    Agree 100%. Board clean out anyone?
     
  4. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    156
    I agree with much of what you say.

    and I'll say again you will not find a person who would not like the co.uk business space to be .uk

    A word of caution to Nominet though it could be a little bit like woolworths not being entirely happy with their brand but sometimes it's more painful to try to change.

    Of course Nominet are going to continually look to move forward and keep apace with change and if they could wave a magic wand and co.uk was .uk it would probably work but for blaringly obvious reasons, they can't. And this process now has a recent history which will continually come back to bite them.
     
  5. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2005
    Posts:
    4,752
    Likes Received:
    120
    Good post Andrew

    Agree with you 100%

    The announcement was encouraging yesterday - but this battle is far from over - nothing worse than settling into a false sense of security.

    You're right about security being the hook that lured the Government departments. However they might have felt a bit foolish when Nominet broke the news that it was security + a shorter .uk domain.
     
  6. Bailey United Kingdom

    Bailey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    Whatever progresses from yesterday onwards - I'm far more confident that it wont be the spin-doctored approach that was inplace.

    I agree with the consensus. Of course we would love all our .co.uk's to be just .uk. But, I'd like to think we would far more care about "UK being a great place to be"

    Given some of the comments It's always going to be difficult to keep 'Personal interest' separate. So in the same vain I have to say none of your bulleted points Andrew would seem unfair to me personally
     
  7. tifosi United Kingdom

    tifosi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    55
    I very much doubt 'being forced to buy dnssec for a .co.uk' will ever be on the table. At least not at the registrant level. The vast majority of registrants barely understand what a domain is.

    Sometime down the line there may be a push towards a registrar 'requirement'.
     
  8. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    156
    They could adopt Edwins proposals but from where we are now I don't think Edwin would be making those proposals.
    A migration would be acceptable but can they pay compensation to co.uk holders for the work involved.

    I think we should be vigilant but not phobic.

    Anyone now investing in co.uk can feel as secure as in any other extension there is not going to be a massive unforseen cost around the corner.

    to put things in perspective.
    If a person had registered 300 domains, encourage by nominet to do so over the years, they were proposing that if you were not a nominet member and had bought your names from a registrar who promoted nominets brand and paying say £6 per year for your 300 names = £1800 per year, you would now need to protect your investment by registering 300 .uk's ( if you could get them) from the same registrar costing say £28 per year, a further £8400 per year retail.

    Costs would have risen from £1800 per year to £10200 per year.
    Good work if you can get it.
     
  9. Bailey United Kingdom

    Bailey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    If there was a migration from .co.uk domains to .uk (approved by nominet) I could easly see .co.uk becoming as active as say .org.uk/ ltd.uk etc nothing more ( a secondary choice)

    Them saying we would continue to support .co.uk is a bit of a 'King Canute'
     
  10. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    156
    My understanding of a migration would be to phase out the co.uk completely at some time in the future. Big risk though killing such a branded extension causing huge confusion, probably a non starter.

    So no real solution without launching .uk as a direct competitor to co.uk and we all know 9,000,000 co.uk domain owners are not going to allow that. Game Over.
     
  11. Bailey United Kingdom

    Bailey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2009
    Posts:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    Game-over being the best possible outcome - In case I'm inadvertently sending mixed messages
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  12. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2006
    Posts:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    13
    "real" security

    Agree with your observations.

    After reading quickly the 80 page overall summary produced by the .uk policy secretariat, I believe they are weighting their aurguments on a few people who completed a flawed consultation document as a desire to go forward with security they have suggested.

    http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/SummaryofdirectukFeedback.pdf

    Those people did not have to do anything more than tick a box and not add a comment and all of sudden we have support.

    They have not yet and will not be able to deal with the many serious objections and logically reasons why their efforts and suggestions at security will not work.

    Nominet really need to go away and think serioulsy about "real" security for the users of the UK namespace.
     
  13. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    156
    I think before Nominet set out on their investigation a movement should be started.

    " No Direct Competitor To co.uk In the UK Domain Space "

    or the like, Keep it simple so everyone can grasp it, no personal interests involved just the fact that the uk business domain space has already been sold through 9,000,000 registrations of co.uk.
     
  14. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,851
    Likes Received:
    617
    The biggest problem is that Nominet has treated the opinions of people without even the first clue about internet security, and those of people well versed (if not expert) in the subject as being of equal weight.

    The reality is that there should be a minimum standard of "credibility" that a response achieves (as measured by an UNBIASED security industry observer) and if it doesn't meet that burden then every last word of that response should be thrown in the bin.

    It's unfair to pick and choose the words of the clueless to counter the words of the knowledgeable, because the former aren't constrained by reality!

    The following are fact:
    - Introducing .uk increases the risk of successful phishing attacks
    - Introducing .uk increases the probability of mis-directed email
    - Trust marks mean nothing to most people, and can very easily be faked
    - If you suggest something is more secure, people will relax their behaviour - it's human nature (i.e. a "veneer" of security can do more harm than good, if the actual security improvements are slight)
    - The address verification process does nothing to validate IDENTITY
    - DNSSEC will never be adopted voluntarily in meaningful numbers
    - Increasing the security of .uk in isolation implicitly decreases the perceived security of .co.uk
    - Taking a website offline (e.g. for malware) will have SEO implications that may not be resolved quickly, if at all, even if it's put back online promptly (Google is fickle)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  15. philiporchard United Kingdom

    philiporchard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Posts:
    1,994
    Likes Received:
    156
    Taking a website offline can be catastrophic in terms of G. Something to avoid at all costs!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.