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123REG Taking Liberties with your .uk domain registration rights

Discussion in 'General Board' started by DaveBeasley, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    Let's face it - these big registrars never do anything for the benefit of the client. They pushed for .uk, hand in hand, with Nominet's board - and that was to the detriment of .co.uk registrants and the .co.uk market in general.

    So if they've taken it upon themselves to register hundreds of thousands of domains (nominet's stats will soon show actual figures) then there can only be one thing in it for them - money - and on the flip side Nominet get to say .uk domain numbers are looking healthy now - so they're doing this hand in hand again.

    So where is the money coming from? In my view, it can only be from the snatching of prime domains in approx 2 years time from unsuspecting clients. And I also expect to see monetized landing pages appearing soon.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    The money's coming from massive increases in registration/renewal fees. Many registrars already have monetised domain holding pages that they display until the client changes the name servers.

    And even if only a fraction of the .uk that were force fed into customer accounts for free get renewed in 2 years time, it's all extra dosh they're raking in for doing nothing at all (programming their system to stuff a .uk into every .co.uk registrant's account probably took half a day at most)

    So while they almost certainly WILL help themselves to the best domains pre-drop (because they CAN) it's at best another jug of gravy into an ever-expanding lake...
     
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  4. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Nominet have updated their stats with the September new domain registration figures:
    49,236 .co.uk
    181,463 .uk
    (Source: https://www.nominet.uk/news/reports-statistics/uk-register-statistics-2017/ )

    That's the highest figure for .uk ever, and the lowest for .co.uk that I can recall (Nominet haven't always published figures though).

    I have no idea why .co.uk was so low - it's hard to see an immediate correlation between that and the free .uk stuff, yet .co.uk dropped by over 50% compared to the trailing average, while .uk leapt nearly 500%. So it's tempting to say one caused the other. But WHY? After all, the freebies are going to existing clients who already have the .co.uk - so why should that affect new .co.uk registrations?

    More likely, we're seeing the effect of the massive price rise many registrars brought in. Again, that's just a guess - but it feels more "right" than the .uk promotion.

    Be interested to see what other explanations you can come up with...
     
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  5. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    The manipulation of figures is now in play up until June 2019 I suspect.
     
  6. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    agreed - I imagine Nominet were getting a little concerned about .co.uk numbers so encouraged this .uk freebie sleight of hand.
     
  7. martin-s United Kingdom

    martin-s Well-Known Member

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    If this approach encouraged actual uptake and usage of .uk, would that be a good thing?

    .uk is never going to be reversed, so is the best case scenario that it is ignored and dies a quiet death, or that it gets gradually adopted?

    Forget the cost implications for a sec (given the recent price increases, 123 Reg could easily continue to offer .uk for free as part of a pair if they wanted to), but what do you actually want to see happen to .uk as an extension - successful adoption or pretend it never happened failure?

    For what it's worth, I'm still in the failure camp, but I appreciate I'm a laggard on this.
     
  8. grandwizard

    grandwizard Guest

    I have many complaints about 123-Reg But this is certainly not one. The darn domains are FREE and its to protect their customers looks like people jumping on the moaning bandwagon! whats the issue? perhaps your chances of catching some of these names drastically reduced ? Give me a Break! you can opt out if you want ridiculous turning this into the biggest conspiracy ! mob mentality BS. Nominet should step in? Yes they have nothing to do but chase registrars granting free domains . Ethics one might say? we are in an industry when we can catch domains for £35 and sell it for £xx,xxx yet we can point figures at companies granting free domains in the hope of making money on renewals we are all hypocrites every last one of us!
     
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  9. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    I've got a few more questions to ask about this so I can understand the situation a little bit more. Perhaps a nominet spokesperson could answer.

    a)When does this 2 year freebie .uk offer end? is it running right up to June 2019 or is the deadline much more immediate for registrars to act?

    b)Are all registrars included in this offer?

    c)Are registrars acting within Nominet terms and conditions to register .uk domains on behalf of customers (and without their knowledge and approval) and to include privacy as well

    d)Why didn't Nominet just offer all registrants the chance of a 2 year freebie .uk?

    e)What happens to overseas owners of a .co.uk? i.e. are they excluded from this offer?

    f)What happens in 2 years (+suspension time) if a .uk (registered by the registrar under circumstances shown in question c above) is not renewed. i.e. Does the registrar have the right to take control?

    g)Will registrars have the right to monetize, for their own benefit, parking pages (registered by the registrar under circumstances shown in question c above)
     
  10. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    Not the point here, the point is that despite the '2 years free registration' offered by Nominet, 123Reg are not asking permission of their customers to take these domains out of ROR; more so, they are adding privacy conditions too, which effectively puts the domains in another entities name, so when the time comes to renew, 123Reg are in a prime position to simply retain the domains themselves.
     
  11. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    If individual registrar T&C's that registrant customers have accepted permit this type of transaction, what legitimate business is it of anyone else? The singling out of one registrar when others are doing it too seems unequal. Nominet will delete domain names if registrants request deletion.

    In my personal opinion there are things that suggest registrars might not such as specific clauses in the registry/registrar agreement referring to obtaining explicit consent to do it.

    Have you, or anyone else, evidence that what you are suggesting is occurring frequently within *.uk today?

    T&C's already exist relating to this.

    Registrar, and registry, revenue will hopefully come from future renewal fees of these domain names by their registrants. Everyone at Nominet is well aware of the legitimacy of the DUM statistic but it's just one statistic and it is used by the vast majority of registries as one particular measure, putting aside how legitimate or valid many that look at it might consider it to be.

    Do registrars heavily involved in *.uk now consider revenue from selling expired *.uk domain names to be significantly important to them in comparison to keeping registrants happy and renewing their domain name and other services?

    I am not sure there's significant revenue in domain name parking pages these days even for registrars with large numbers of domain names parked in this way.

    Please see above about taking ownership of expired domain names.

    I think, @martin-s, the answer to your question would be "it depends what's in it for me" with respect to many contributing to this thread.

    Everyone contributing here appears to have a different agenda and there are some contributing who don't really grasp much of what's being discussed so reasonable discourse get pushed to the back.

    Here's how you begin to find out.

    ...or perhaps you're unfamiliar with this registrars particular T&C's.
     
  12. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks invincible - and there was me thinking you were the fount of nominet knowledge :)

    does anyone else know the answer to this one:

    a)When does this 2 year freebie .uk offer end? is it running right up to June 2019 or is the deadline much more immediate for registrars to act?
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    David, don’t hold your breath waiting for a response from me on any of your points. We both know you have a quasi-infinite capacity for sandbagging any Nominet discussion, so it’s a waste of energy to engage with you.

    Whether others will continue to swallow the troll bait is up to them, but I see no benefit in a continual back-and-forth with a gold standard yes-man.

    (Posting the above in case you think I haven’t seen your answers. I have, and am actively not responding to them.)
     
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  14. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Many posting in this thread know because they're registrars but they have no business posting about it here.

    Rest assured I'm not waiting for your or anyone else's replies in particular.
     
  15. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    are you saying it is confidential information?
     
  16. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I am politely suggesting that you may be talking to yourself. :)
     
  17. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    mine was a simple question - didn't know it was a secret society
     
  18. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason to register these behind an invisible wall under the guise of identity protection.

    David, you are a yes man like Edwin says. I pity your shitter!
     
  19. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    @rwinslow gave you the reason for why the registrar has registered them to Identity Protect Ltd. It seems an acceptable one. They still have to abide by registrar/registry T&C’s like all other registrars.

    Are you feeling outmanovered? I’ve always suggested that I doubted Nominet would permit a huge drop of names come the end of the RoR.

    He’s as self centred as you. :)
     
  20. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    Now that is a very interesting and telling comment. Says it all really!
     
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  21. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been saying it for many, many years Miss Marple. Seemed quite obvious from the outset. :)
     
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