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Corona please read very important

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by dougs, Mar 15, 2020.

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  1. bonusmedia

    bonusmedia Well-Known Member

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  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. AssetDomains

    AssetDomains Well-Known Member

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    It is worrying Whats happening in Italy but it doesn't have to be this way in the west. The EU needs to step in with direct cash into peoples banks similar to what the US is doing. I know Italy has a wage protection scheme similar to here and elsewhere in Europe this linked to Tax contributions though. I think the problem in southern Italy is the cash economy and tax dodging making it hard administrate. There is a element of chickens coming home to roost for these tax dodgers but still in the west we cant let people starve and society fall into ruin. I really fear for what's going to happen in India and Africa and the other less developed parts of the world
     
  4. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Maybe everyone under 50 without a health condition and not displaying symptoms needs to go back to work

    Anyone who doesn't fall into that category needs to heavily self isolate
     
  5. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    That tends to ignore the asymptomatic effect, as it's virtually impossible to avoid millions of people less than say 35 who live with their 55+ parents etc.
     
  6. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Thats true

    I don't know if there are any unique reasons why Italians would riot and storm supermarkets and the UK wouldn't but fingers crossed

    Having seen the London riots there's enough people happy to go out to loot tomorrow if they could, on top of families doing it out of desperation, I wouldn't be surprised if it was already being planned

    Hopefully having seen this the government, if it's even possible, will expedite all the financial help they've promised

    If not at a certain point does the collapse of society outweigh the overwhelming of the NHS in terms of a crisis and would the NHS even be able to run properly in such conditions
     
  7. newguy United Kingdom

    newguy Well-Known Member

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    It's certainly imperfect and imperils the vulnerable, but if vast numbers of people in at-risk groups can isolate themselves to their best of the their ability and let others build an immunity to it, it would in a sense also help to protect people. I'm fully behind the current strategy but long term it seems realistic that 50%+ of the population will get this virus at some point, before it hopefully peters out.
     
  8. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    That's certainly one of those 64k dollar questions for sure, and it's alarming to think that we could so easily get to a point where the virus wins, and we end up sitting back and watching as a significant majority of maybe 500k people are Darwin'd.
     
  9. keys United Kingdom

    keys Well-Known Member

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    When people make a sacrifice, they need to feel that it is with good reason and benefit. Isolation is a big ask, even for short time. When the duration is uncertain, and income is reduced or removed, the situation becomes tense. Italians have the added pain of a considerable daily death rate attributed to CV, and extensive media coverage.

    The only measure of benefit are words of encouragement from politicians, advisers and medics. It is a grim state of affairs, with other countries set to follow the same path. The only collective defence currently available is isolation, however tough it seems.
     
  10. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

    Reading this, written by "John Lee is a recently retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant pathologis"

    "But there’s another, potentially even more serious problem: the way that deaths are recorded. If someone dies of a respiratory infection in the UK, the specific cause of the infection is not usually recorded, unless the illness is a rare ‘notifiable disease’. So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections. If the patient has, say, cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, this will be recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was a respiratory infection. This means UK certifications normally under-record deaths due to respiratory infections.

    In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate — contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind"

    That does go with what Brewsters has been saying

    Basically the article says it's very typical to normal flu
     
  11. newguy United Kingdom

    newguy Well-Known Member

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    But I
    I think how deaths are recorded is a valid point, but at the same time, the numbers we're seeing in Spain and Italy are surely rather unusual. As in, isn't it very unlikely that tens of thousands of people dying all happen to have a virus that's been going around for a couple of months? I'm inclined to believe that it's a fair bit worse than the flu, but possibly also that it's not as bad as it couldn't been (though too early to say though really). Due to how interconnected everything is now, if this virus had been 10 times worse than covid-19, it doesn't seem like we'd have been any better at getting it under control.So we should perhaps be thankful for that.
     
  12. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    The numbers in Spain seem to be unfairly skewed to the old now anyway:
     
  13. keys United Kingdom

    keys Well-Known Member

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    Limit test kits to 2000 per day, force doctors to refuse even assessment for people presenting with any fever or cough. That would improve the numbers considerably. Shocking, but a plausible explanation for miraculous recovery claimed by CCP.
     
  14. newguy United Kingdom

    newguy Well-Known Member

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    I must admit, that despite their clampdown, I take the numbers of of China with a pinch of salt.

    I'm not convinced that there's any way out the current situation that doesn't this being a difficult 2020. I guess the plus side is that hopefully we will start turning a corner after this and maybe the next wave.
     
  15. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    They're saying only 150 people died on their worst day, probably more like 1500
     
  16. newguy United Kingdom

    newguy Well-Known Member

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  17. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. JMI

    JMI Active Member

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    On close examination of the doctors coats they look fake, the kind of thing I'd expect to buy from a joke shop for new years eve.. just saying..
     
  19. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Active Member

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    As you predicted it's gone. If the authorities are asking people to stay home, under a form of house arrest. They have the right to see contradicting evidence and make up their own minds.
     
  20. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

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    Someone else has copied and put it up. Again...I don't expect it to be up for long.

    Also - while everyone is doing their 'research'...can anyone say please what test exists that differentiates covid-19 from any other run-of-the-mill corona viruses?

    Italy has asked for the EU for money because of the virus. I expect Spain will too very soon. Suprised Greece hasn't declared similar figures to those two.
     
  21. AssetDomains

    AssetDomains Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting to here other perspectives but if these pursued people not to adhere to the course of action we now have to undertake they are very dangerous on platforms like YouTube were anyone can just say anything without any credentials as much as it goes against what I believe they should be taken down until verified.
    As for professor Lee maybe when we can test everyone we will see a massive shift down in the fatality rate something similar to flu it doesn't mean we can treat this just like flu. What was the famous saying Lies, damned lies, and statistics
    I refer you back to my previous post and what has actually happened in Italy

    Where average flu deaths pair year are 17'000 higher than the UK because of there more elderly population.
    In the last 6 weeks over 9000 (now 10k) Have died of covid-19 in Italy roughly 6 months flu in six weeks. but in reality as the numbers are climbing exponentially a huge proportion of theses deaths over 50% have happened in the last week. So one quarter of the Annual Flu deaths recorded in week hope these numbers ARE clear and make you realise the scale of what is happening.
    I'm sure you are going to well how many would have died of flu anyway just in case lets do the numbers 17'000 dived by 12 is roughly 1400 a month. lets be reasonable and say we know flu is seasonal and more deaths occur in the winter even if you double 1400 to 2800 its clear to see 9000 is a much bigger number and lets just reiterate over 4000 of the covid-19 deaths occurred in the last 7 days (Actualy now 5K that's how fast this is moving)

    This is also currently being repeated in Spain and New York so lets forget the statistics for a minute and use another famous saying a picture paints a thousand words look at what Covid is doing around the world flu kills tens of thousands every year but it has never done this in a century.
    Italy


    Spain

    New York


    The logic behind Professor Lee numbers are well all these old or sick people would have died in the next X amount of years anyway so its not that much of a big deal if they all die in the next 2 or 3 months.
    I'm not sure I want live in a society willing to right off half a million in a few months because our politicians were to incompetent to follow the test test test mantra put forward my the WHO now being employed by the Germans
     
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