20i Domains

27 days... Model C... an auction model

Discussion in 'Nominet General Information' started by Siusaidh, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. webber

    webber Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2019
    Posts:
    190
    Likes Received:
    43
    I think the auction model has the potential to positively impact the wider uk domain market because:
    • it should be more transparent (Nominet have confirmed that even a sealed auction will have the bids public afterwards);
    • it would be a one stop shop for acquiring expired domain names; no more signing up to various dropcatching platforms, placing pre-bids here, first come first server there, dropcatch slots elsewhere – it's a right mess if all you want is to buy a domain name;
    • it could implement more advanced features like watchlists, alerts, auto bidding, but for that it would probably have to be developed in house;
    • it would distribute a significant proportion of the money in the secondary market to good charitable causes;

    I do have some concerns:
    • where the money goes to and how will it be ringfenced; Nominet have given reassurances that this is not driven by profit, but without a truly transparent structure this is just hot air – this needs a separate charity entity.
    • the £10 or £5 non-refundable joining fee for each auction is outrageous in my opinion; I want to be able to take part in auctions easily, if it reaches a level outside of my budget then I should be able to step back without any financial penalty; think of the September drop and how much that would cost to simply take part;
    • the system can still be abused; accounts need to have some basic verification – instead of £10 non-refundable fee, make it a £100 hold on your credit card for each auction you take part so as to verify identity and act as a penalty if you're the winner and don't complete the payment;
    • the token implementation is not in line with current "push" method of transferring uk domains; you should push the domain to your registrar from the auction website;
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. super-whois United Kingdom

    super-whois Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2008
    Posts:
    204
    Likes Received:
    43
    This argument contradicts competition law, and there is no evidence Nominet will be more transparent than what the market would offer on its own accord. If you would like transparency, then either provide that platform, or support one that does.

    That would be a monopoly, which would contravene competition law.

    The free market already provide this, thanks to the likes of @lazarus and flip.uk.

    There is no proof that Nominet would do this. We do have a prominent member in our community that does this out of his own good will, and I'm sure there are others we don't know about. Nominet will just give more bonuses to its executive...
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    4,201
    Likes Received:
    401
    I'd rather people have the opportunity to make a success of themselves than rely on charity

    Dropcatching provided that, anyone could have got into it and I was anyone in 2012

    I didn't start with any money or knowledge and its worked out great for me

    It would have been nice to leave a great entrepreneurial avenue open
     
  5. webber

    webber Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2019
    Posts:
    190
    Likes Received:
    43
    I don't claim to have definitive answers or to be some sort of expert.
    This is just my opinion as a self managed registrar, a domain investor of sorts, and user of hosted catching service.

    In what way does it contradicts competition law?

    Nominet is a monopoliy. If it was replaced as a registry by a fully transparent charity organisation then I would be very happy.

    Indeed, some do it very well like @dropped.uk. Some of these features would probably need to be incorporated in an auction platform

    Hence the need to be more transparent and have revenue ringfenced.

    And I agree with that, but current system has been proven to only benefit a select few. We're now asked what alternative system to replace it and out of the proposed solutions the auction seems to make most sense to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  6. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2018
    Posts:
    1,721
    Likes Received:
    219
    This is all going to backfire on them. Without the domain industry, dropcatchers, backorders, etc. a LOT of registrations won’t take place. And people who would have previously thrown a bid or two in an auction on DomainLore or Flip or UKBO will now not bother. Industry needs competition to grow. Nominet taking them lions share and squashing their dropcatching industry will reduce the buzz about .uk names even further.

    And as someone mentioned earlier, how convenient just in time for Septembers drops.

    I personally think Nominet can take a hike, off a cliff preferably. They’re stepping on toes they shouldn’t be. This is a non-profit organisation. What business do they have auctioning names they don’t own?
     
  7. mcrick Portugal

    mcrick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2020
    Posts:
    49
    Likes Received:
    3
    What would you have likely done if you hadn't gone into drop catching? Did it ever come to mind that it might not continue as it had been doing and you should think about planning for that day?
     
  8. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    4,201
    Likes Received:
    401
    How do they put up with you at Nominet :p ooze condescension

    As you're aware my post wasn't about me, the sentiment was future mes who might have come across the domain industry and wanted to learn and get into it, that door will now be shut for them other than speculative .com registrations

    Leaving the door open for people to make successes of themselves is far superior to charity
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. webber

    webber Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2019
    Posts:
    190
    Likes Received:
    43
    They stated in the webinar that this will be implemented with ample notice, which is how it should be. I expect something like 6 months notice to implement changes at registrars. This won't impact September drops I don't think.

    Except they are not a non-profit organisation, they are very much for-profit. If they want to implement changes then let's look deeper than dropcatching and review why they are the uk registry without any competition to this title, and why they can offer a utility-style monopoly service with totally unregulated profit margins
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  10. martin-s United Kingdom

    martin-s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2012
    Posts:
    3,403
    Likes Received:
    239
    Or end users
     
  11. mcrick Portugal

    mcrick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2020
    Posts:
    49
    Likes Received:
    3
    You may have tried to frame it as only being about future entrants but I think fairly and squarely it is about you. :) You got in whenever you did, enjoyed it and were encouraged to pursue it therefore made money. Others who did the same likely failed because they weren't as skilled as you. However it was opportunistic and like many you must thank your lucky stars that you found out about it when you did. If you've done well, good. Future changes are inevitable and future entrants will adapt to the circumstances presented to them at the time. I do think about those who came into it, made money, spent it all and now have nothing to show for it if the taps are turned down/off and I hope that isn't the case for the majority. I hope some, but I can't know which ones, will have been mindful to realise they were onto a lucky break and should invest the money in something which will give them a future return (such as themselves) if/when it all ended for them. It is business, though, not for fun.
     
  12. rottensoundz United Kingdom

    rottensoundz Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    260
    Likes Received:
    7
    Hi All,

    I haven’t posted in a while and have mostly moved on from domaining but I still enjoy frequenting Acorn and keeping up to date and felt like I wanted to contribute to this.

    I have read this whole thread and the news article thread, please excuse me if i am repeating anyone elses ideas.

    Currently I am against the Auction model but want to keep this post constructive so I would like to lay out some concerns I have on this model so they can be debated and maybe even have my view changed.

    For me it comes down to ethics, trust and perceived neutrality.

    Please except some of my thoughts are theory that might be wrong or never come to place but I believe they are worth exploring and might start to prove this model could work out to be a headache.

    My first thought was about domains expiring with trademark issues, what if a (perceived to be) valuable domain had bids against it and it was heavily trademarked would any of the trademark owners have legal right to litigation against nominet? If so would they implement some sort of trademark filter to stop these domains from going to auction or would the trademark owners have first rights, would I then be able to (time permitting) acquire a trademark to better myself in acquiring this type of domain ?

    What statistics are going to be used to choose what domains are valuable?

    Would backlinks be a statistic? Can anyone see any potential problems if domains with backlinks are auctioned by Nominet?

    Would the amount of times a domain gets looked up at Nominets whois be used as a statistic?
    I currently trust the whois, I only look up domains there instead of registrars whois’s because of the practice of domains being registered after X amounts of look ups.I would perceive people having less trust in the whois if there was a possible benefit from the statistics gained from using it.

    Or is it just going to be domains with pre-bids that go to auction?

    If so I think there will still be some sort of dropcatching of non-auctioned domains that are still valuable.


    I would feel less trusting of a company that has a vested interest in my (valuable) domain expiring, I would not be expecting any underhand tactics but what if a email accidently did not go out about renewal, my domain dropped and it was auctioned by the company that was meant to send the email out?

    Could I drs nominet at the point they are auctioning a domain I think I have ‘rights’ to?

    What about paranoia of shill bidding to drive their profits up?

    What if someone who works at Nominet wants a domain being bid on, will they be allowed to bid in the auction?

    Here is a article published yesterday at the register.com
    I re-read it today and then went on to read the comments, the ones I noted are from, Diogeness8080,Maffski,Mike137

    https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/22/nominet_uk_addresses/
     
  13. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,022
    Likes Received:
    292
    Nominet claim that the 90 period is sufficient for this not to be a problem, and as they only facilitate the auction on behalf of buyers, they would likely allow domains to sell, then accept a DRS against the new owner, not Nominet. Existing rules on swear words, blatant misspellings etc continue to apply.

    Expressions of interest.

    Same as your first question really, backlinks from the past don't except a domain from sale in the future.

    I doubt it, they'll use expressions of interest. It isn't Nominet's place to determine value.

    Yes, none contested domains will drop for registration using EPP using a timestamp or set time.

    Always possible, no idea why anyone would bother, apart from Nominet themselves.

    Note - just my opinion based upon research and webinars etc, Nominet may do something else entirely.
    Disclaimer - I'm against any auction model
     
    • Informative Informative x 1