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Automaton phase out 1st February 2016

Discussion in 'Nominet Tag Holders' started by invincible, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    As announced just over one year ago the Nominet automaton will be phased out completely on 1st February 2016. Further details can be read here. I have not used the automaton in a number of years but for anyone unfamiliar it was the original method for registrars to register and manage .uk domain names using PGP signed emails.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    IWA Meetup
     
  3. humble pie United Kingdom

    humble pie Banned

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    More importantly, when is the current expired domain system begin phased out in favour of a much 'fairer' open auction platform provided by Nominet direct... thus allowing all those poor, unfortunate wailing souls, to reclaim their expired domain in a transparent and just environment.
     
  4. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    How is settling to the highest bidder fair in comparison to first come first served?

    As a registrar, you are required to issue renewal notifications to the registrant
    As a registrant, you are required to keep your contact details up to date so the only reason your name will expire is failure to respond to the renewal invite or failure to update your contact details.
     
  5. gimpydog United Kingdom

    gimpydog Active Member

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    Because "first-come first-served" only applies to Nominet members?

    Anyone outside of the cartel has little, or no chance.

    popcorn
     
  6. humble pie United Kingdom

    humble pie Banned

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    lol.. are you serious :D

    more like.. firsteth cometh mosteth taggies plus our acquaintance with nom staffeth.
     
  7. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    Chances are those individuals that forget to renew are not going to notice before the auction concludes, at which point the cost of re-entry is likely to be much higher.

    Not in favour of a change, the current drop system is an enjoyable lottery with minimal risk; who'd want to take that fun away :D
     
  8. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can book with a variety of public catch systems and get a fair priced catch, bung it to auction and then it is only those with deep pockets that can have a crack at it.

    As for cartel, please explain... Nominet membership is open to anyone, Nominet publish everything needed for anyone with the necessary skills to create their own systems to join the first come first served game.
     
  9. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    If you believe people are linking their TAG's put the evidence to Nominet and let them deal with it as it is a breach of the T&C's!
     
  10. gimpydog United Kingdom

    gimpydog Active Member

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    But there is no guarantee a public catcher will get it & they will then get a crack at buying it, is there? What if you catch it for "future development" & won't sell it or put it up for auction?

    Do you sell your catches FC-FS for a low fixed price? I suspect not.

    I'll assume that's rhetorical & you don't really need a definition from me. As you rightly point out, only Nominet members get the access needed to be first in the queue. A cartel that is open to new members is still a cartel.

    You might recall Nominet themselves commissioned a report into Nominet that suggested Nominet could be construed as operating a cartel.

    At the end of the day, Nominet is owned by it's members. The membership select the people who set the prices & control the supply of domains.

    If we take our domainer's goggles off, isn't it obvious that the .uk domain aftermarket works for a few & not the many?

    Ultimately, the desirable domains wiil end up in the hands of those with the deepest pockets, so why not have Nominet auction off all the expiring domains & use the proceeds to reduce prices?

    [tinHatOn]
     
  11. RobM

    RobM Retired Member

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    I liked the automaton. Was still using it today for some little bits :( It's been good to me over the years - I'll miss it.
     
  12. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    I see your points, but that's not really an argument though, Nominet are putting up prices, they are pushing shed loads of cash into the trust rather than reducing prices further.

    If you look at the auctions for the short domains, how many of them actually went to real people rather than domainers? Again, that generated lots of cash for Nominet, but prices didn't some down after those auctions.

    I'd go as far to suggest that ALL aftermarkets (not just domains) serve the few and not the many. People will always buy up everything they can and store it away for future use, just look at building land, buy to let market, art, classic cars and probably just about every market imaginable, that's what investors do.
     
  13. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, have used a simple locally hosted web application to push PGP emails for years, so simple to do in comparison to EPP.
     
  14. gimpydog United Kingdom

    gimpydog Active Member

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    I agree. But it is only possible because they are in a position to abuse their monopoly.

    I would suggest that the Nominet Trust is only there because of the shortcomings of previous Nominet directors - a quid pro quo. But I can see why the current board would be reluctant to let it go.

    How many "real people" were informed, or offered an easy way to participate? Nominet could easily have put them on eBay! Once again it was 'members first'.

    Yes, it is human nature. Most of your examples are clearly good investments made in an open & fair market , but many domain registrations are purely speculative & irrational.

    If UK domains were not a fiver, but £100/yr, do you think one person would control two thirds of all possible LLL combinations, one person could own 5000+ long-tail EMDs or one person would own thousands of UK geos?
     
  15. atlas Canada

    atlas Well-Known Member

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    Or 70% of the media market being controlled by 3 companies

    Or 75% of the agricultural market being controlled by 4 companies

    Or...

    Corporate concentration in a market is hardly an unusual or undesirable feature.
     
  16. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    Anyone could "claim" the short domains though, it wasn't members only. I had a 2 letter on behalf of a new customer, so some non-members were aware of it. How many people actually know what a domain is though? That's probably more of the issue than how they are sold. If the great unwashed knew about domains and the relative low start-up costs, then I'm sure there would be far more involved, however, most have no idea and just search for everything.

    Sounds like sour grapes to me, when anything is only understood by a few, then these few will corner the market. In my teens, I used to work at the top of the Isle of Dogs and nobody wanted to be in that area, it only took a few early speculators buying up redundant warehouses, now look at the cost of property down there.

    I've had my main domain from way back before Nominet in the days where everything was done manually, you could argue that it was the introduction of Nominet and their automaton system that allowed the early speculators to get a foot in the door as this removed the human element from validating each registration was a genuine registration :) Imagine the land market if you could do the transactions with a single PGP email!
     
  17. gimpydog United Kingdom

    gimpydog Active Member

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    No, not at all. Actually, I'm full of admiration for someone who had the balls to take a punt on thousands of .uk domains in the late nineties (when there was no certainty that the interweb would catch on) & keep paying renewals when the dotcom bubble burst. I'm not sure I could have done that.

    However, it would be wrong to think that there wasn't a consequence for UK PLC and all us non-visionary plebs. :)
     
  18. gimpydog United Kingdom

    gimpydog Active Member

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    Not unusual, no.

    If you are a commuter forking out £10k for a Birmingham-London season ticket, or a pensioner trying to keep your house warm, or a small business bidding on PPC, you might well think it undesirable.
     
  19. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Well-Known Member

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    Most people still have no idea of a domain name and those that do frequently assume .com is the only domain anyway. I don't really see how having a large selection of names stockpiled is a problem, at least with a domain name you can use another one with ease, it's not like someone owning all the land and you have nowhere to build a house on.