Anybody build with Python?

[Ben Thomas]

After several years of using other peoples SaaS, I want to try and build my own script. I have chosen Python, a language I'm not familiar with at all, but it was recommended to me over C++ as being an easier language to learn.

If anybody has built with Python, and could offer me some steps in the right direction with drop catching, it would be appreciated.

EDIT: Forgot to say, I have the background knowledge on hosting etc. just looking for any helpful advice to get a step in the right direction. Thanks

 

[JMI]

Depends what sort of applications you want to build. Although a bit harder to learn c++ will be faster and you'll probably be a "better" programmer at the end of it.

(OO dying init.. to slow for big data?)

 

[lazarus]

If you want something that is compiled take a look at Go.

Any language should be fine with drop catching as we are talking about code execution in terms of microseconds (Millionth of a second) between them for the simple task that we need it to do. PHP8.1 CLI is super fast.

 

[Transcom ISP]

agreed, we benchmarked and surprisingly php 8 came out on top..

The big issue regardless, is calculating a persistent latency to the epp server, just so many variables even if your just 500 microseconds (+/- 200us) away from it..

In the months we put in, we found 8 different ways of getting 'a' latency , every one different every time..

 

[lazarus]

Timing a drop will be an ever-changing landscape as, as you pointed out there are just too many variables to be spot on every time.
It's easier for non-contested domains. But who knows what latency to factor in when every drop catcher is firing at the same time?

I think that's why we have seen a varied spread of different TAG's catching the best ones. Maybe it's more hit and hope than over thinking it.

 

[Ben Thomas]

If you want something that is compiled take a look at Go.

Any language should be fine with drop catching as we are talking about code execution in terms of microseconds (Millionth of a second) between them for the simple task that we need it to do. PHP8.1 CLI is super fast.

I know but surely there is a speed discrepency between PHP and something like Python/Ruby, even if we are talking about microseconds. I know that C++ would be faster than Python, even in the microsecond range. That's why Denys is doing better than anyone else, he's written Domaincatch in C++ or some other low level language.

(OO dying init.. to slow for big data?)

I don't think OO is dying (Assuming you mean C++ by the way, because Python etc. os also OO) , I just think there's a lot of new or easier to use/write alternatives. If I could go back to college and get paid for learning C++ instead of getting paid to learn how to fix cars, I probably would. But now, I just can't justify spending X years getting familiar with C++

By the way, thanks for the comments so far.

 

[Transcom ISP]

Well as for php, they have great tools now, ie, hrtime in nanoseconds that has no relation to a wavering system clock anymore, instead of microtime , plus, tools to calculate the actual submission minus php time, so processing regardless of language is pretty redundant as its pre adjusted.

Even so, its still hit and miss with no persistent set latency

 

[DJ]

I'm not sure how hit and miss it can be when you see the same tags catching day after day.

 

[Transcom ISP]

well that is a mystery, and theres been plenty of discussions here on why that could be, dont forget, that as with the old DAC restrictions,, EPP creates are restricted to at 1000 a day.. so just look at multiples of 1000 and were back to the old issue again..

Latency is truy variable from anywhere, there is no contesting that..

 

[Jiblob]

I really don't think that C++ is going to be an easier language to learn... I believe that you have to learn about memory management and stuff? Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Use a language that handles the low level stuff like memory management for you without you having to care. Python being one of those languages.

Maybe you need to know about memory management and these sorts of things to be successful with drop catching, but there are probably plenty of optimisations that can be done before having to get down and dirty with low level code execution optimisations like what is possible with lower level languages like C++...?

I use .net core/C# now, used to use PHP about 10 years ago. I use python where required to get things done. Whenever anyone asks about which language they should use I tell them that whatever they use, they should use a framework, especially if they're building a website. It's not clever to try and build a website from the ground up with just straight PHP, for example, you'd be missing out on the mountains of work that has already been put into MVC frameworks and such like that it would be like spinning plates to achieve better (in terms of security, patterns, documentation, hosting support etc).

I build websites in the main, but also have tinkered with drop catching using DAC/EPP with limited success, but I haven't put a lot of time into optimising it... I don't have the time, but I know umpteen things that I know I would do. It would be hosted in the cloud, put it that way.

Also, get a good IDE. IDEs are absolutely INVALUABLE when it comes to software development. VS code or notepad just doesn't cut the mustard. There are so many great pieces of software available for cheap quite frankly... rider for c#, pycharm for Python (both have perpetual licenses IE you pay once and you get them at the version you used for life for free). The context you get from these IDE and code suggestions are what makes coding a delight.

 

[Ben Thomas]

I really don't think that C++ is going to be an easier language to learn... I believe that you have to learn about memory management and stuff? Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Use a language that handles the low level stuff like memory management for you without you having to care. Python being one of those languages.

Maybe you need to know about memory management and these sorts of things to be successful with drop catching, but there are probably plenty of optimisations that can be done before having to get down and dirty with low level code execution optimisations like what is possible with lower level languages like C++...?

I use .net core/C# now, used to use PHP about 10 years ago. I use python where required to get things done. Whenever anyone asks about which language they should use I tell them that whatever they use, they should use a framework, especially if they're building a website. It's not clever to try and build a website from the ground up with just straight PHP, for example, you'd be missing out on the mountains of work that has already been put into MVC frameworks and such like that it would be like spinning plates to achieve better (in terms of security, patterns, documentation, hosting support etc).

I build websites in the main, but also have tinkered with drop catching using DAC/EPP with limited success, but I haven't put a lot of time into optimising it... I don't have the time, but I know umpteen things that I know I would do. It would be hosted in the cloud, put it that way.

Also, get a good IDE. IDEs are absolutely INVALUABLE when it comes to software development. VS code or notepad just doesn't cut the mustard. There are so many great pieces of software available for cheap quite frankly... rider for c#, pycharm for Python (both have perpetual licenses IE you pay once and you get them at the version you used for life for free). The context you get from these IDE and code suggestions are what makes coding a delight.

Thanks for all of your comments here. I am unsure if you got confused though, I am not learning C++ but am learning Python. C++ is going to be too steep a learning curve for the timeframe I need.

I code HTML/PHP/CSS and other templating languages like handlebars and things, some Node etc. with Sublime Text. I used to love Atom for MacOS but apparently they have stopped development for it.

 

[Jiblob]

Thanks for all of your comments here. I am unsure if you got confused though, I am not learning C++ but am learning Python. C++ is going to be too steep a learning curve for the timeframe I need.

I code HTML/PHP/CSS and other templating languages like handlebars and things, some Node etc. with Sublime Text. I used to love Atom for MacOS but apparently they have stopped development for it.

I was basically confirming what you said about c++, it's most likely not required.

Sublime text is good but it's not an IDE.

 

[JMI]

I know but surely there is a speed discrepency between PHP and something like Python/Ruby, even if we are talking about microseconds. I know that C++ would be faster than Python, even in the microsecond range. That's why Denys is doing better than anyone else, he's written Domaincatch in C++ or some other low level language.




I don't think OO is dying (Assuming you mean C++ by the way, because Python etc. os also OO) , I just think there's a lot of new or easier to use/write alternatives. If I could go back to college and get paid for learning C++ instead of getting paid to learn how to fix cars, I probably would. But now, I just can't justify spending X years getting familiar with C++

By the way, thanks for the comments so far.

I think functional programming is becoming all the rage with the bourgeoisie these days..

 

[Ben Thomas]

I was basically confirming what you said about c++, it's most likely not required.

Sublime text is good but it's not an IDE.

What’s the difference between an IDE like Pycharm and Sublime text with just syntax highlighting etc?

 

[Jiblob]

What’s the difference between an IDE like Pycharm and Sublime text with just syntax highlighting etc?

It starts with highlighting, certainly, but it's a lot more than that. Generally a good ide will suggest ways to write things in a better way, will point out known pit falls and suggest optimisations. It'll tell you when variables aren't being used, where code can't be accessed. You can write tests and run them so that you know that code is doing what you expect it to do and that you don't accidentally break it.

It also helps with refactoring and code manipulation... the ability to pull code out into a new method or module in an instant without having to copy and paste code. Renaming variables, stuff like that, can be done by the software without having to do a dumb find and replace with everywhere it is being used updated and keeping your code intact.

A decent IDE will basically integrate the documentation into the code for you as well, it will tell you what types are expected in methods that you are using and tell you when you're passing the wrong thing in.

Debugging too, where you can step through the code line by line and see what variables are being set etc. Etc

There are many many functions that a decent IDE can perform that just make life easier.

All the best.

 

[ukbackorder]

I use nano and a linux command line. Probably explains why I still have no idea which millisecond a domain is dropping
You don't need complicated fancy software. The less overheads the quicker it will be.,

 

[Transcom ISP]

I use nano and a linux command line. Probably explains why I still have no idea which millisecond a domain is dropping
You don't need complicated fancy software. The less overheads the quicker it will be.,

dont think anyone does, the latency is so variable... what one would you use... fopen, socket write. traceroute, ntp ping ?
every one is different, on every machine..

 

[ukbackorder]

Finding transit latency is easy to the microsecond. However that does not appear to be what nominet mean....

 

[Transcom ISP]

Finding transit latency is easy to the microsecond. However that does not appear to be what nominet mean....

exactly...

 

[Ben Thomas]

We're all up shits creek without a paddle at the moment