Domain Manage

Has drop catching been randomised?!?!

Discussion in 'Drop catching Domain Names' started by ian, Jan 5, 2015.

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  1. ian

    ian Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Don't worry, not crying wolf, but anyone else noticed the huge irregularities in successful domain catching recently? I've never seen such a broad range of tags catching fairly contested domains. Names appearing that I've not seen in a long time, public catchers picking up domains and a disappearance of the regulars, how bizarre! Have Nominet changed the rules or something, sharing out domains accordingly, surely not ;)
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

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    I would say the glitch people found, the seed has changed dramatically and they can't spot it.
     
  4. ian

    ian Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    I don't agree this is the case, as that wouldn't suddenly mean their systems are unworthy (many of them are the strongest performers all round) to compete. It is as if Nominet have put a system in place that either tries to evenly split catches across all chasers, or uses a lottery system; just on the basis of how many new/rare tags are picking up domains.

    I'm surprised this hasn't sparked more debate? It doesn't have to be about "it is not fair", just intriguing as to who thinks Nominet have made a change versus that believe it is just an open field again (which surely also means a change at Nominet?)
     
  5. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

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    If Nominet have made a change to distribute, then it's no longer first come first served and we should have been advised of the new policy.

    I've not really had much time to look at failed catches in detail, but there are a few tags I don't recognise.
     
  6. ian

    ian Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    This is what I thought, it would be a major shift in policy, but Nominet seldom follow their own procedures in my experience. There certainly hasn't been any publicly released announcement on a EPP/DAC update around the time things changed.

    You should take a look, it is a mighty big shock.
     
  7. cannybagotudor United Kingdom

    cannybagotudor Active Member

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    Nothing wrong with new tags getting drops, it's not a closed shop for the select few.
    More and more people are going into drop catching so of course you're going to see new names.
    I find it amusing the view is only a handful of people should be getting good names, or the undertones of foul play are put into play.
     
  8. ian

    ian Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Then with the greatest of respect, you misconstrued the thread. This isn't about fairness (all for this), and why some domainers should have more rights to catching than others, but merely about a very clear fundamental change in the way domains are distributed that hasn't been officially announced to tag holders etc. I'm just more surprised by the lack of discussion on this, others must have noticed too; rather than it being a personal rant because I haven't caught x y and z. The shift is too significant for it to simply be a case of a few new tags coming in, as many of them are long-term tag holders, but not prolific catchers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  9. foz

    foz Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Whatever happened to Registrars renewing and keeping? Nominet brought in policies for them to do that. Has that impacted on what does drop?
     
  10. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't it also depend on who is ultimately behind those that are appearing to successfully catch? Without data it's not really that reasonable to expect much comment. However if some of these long-term tag holders are all paying the same hosted catching service, rather than running their own code, then that might go some way to explain. All the more reason why I believe it should be mandatory for hosted catching services to disclose their customer connections. :p
     
  11. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

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    Haven't we already discussed this a while back and it was only that seemed to be in favour :)
     
  12. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I remember only a small number of others replying who were possibly naturally biased towards not revealing this information. I also remember you apparently confusing what I was suggesting with something else and the subject going off tangent for a while. ☺ As you will be aware, there are published resource limits for members using certain services as well as rules about association. If this isn't seen to being enforced, who knows what might happen! :p

    I'll get to say my piece on 22/01 if I decide to. I doubt we'll see any drop catching hosts attend the day of course.

    (from Note 3)
     
  13. PoshTiger United Kingdom

    PoshTiger Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, what's happening on the 22nd?
     
  14. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

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    Most of these "strange" tags mentioned, have popped up many times before to snatch the pick of the day, I just don't think they are regular catchers.

    The tag which got todays best name, has caught multiple LLL's over the last 2 yrs, the other tag which has been good lately pops up and snags primes and LLLs now and then. There are a few of those kind of tags as well.

    I have only see 1 maybe 2 "new tags" snatching quality names, but every dog has its day.
     
  15. Murray United Kingdom

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Yep I've seen most of them catch before, just not very regularly

    Seems to be pretty open atm, not just Denys, Darren, Sean etc catching everything between them.
     
  16. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

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    I fail to see how my tag is associated to the tags of any of my hosted customers, perhaps you can explain this further?
     
  17. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it is. Also there isn't actually a requirement for the operator of a DAC/EPP host service to be a Nominet member them self. Logic suggests they probably would but one could be a fantastically skilled programmer yet hold no interest in acquiring domain names, preferring to sell their developed hosted services to third parties.

    I'm simply saying that it might be sensible for there to be some sort of public or on record declaration by such hosts, because the resources their customers covert are protected by limits, so it's established who is pulling the strings, so to speak, behind multiple (apparently unassociated) memberships.


    (from iPad - K)
     
  18. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

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    So why does this have to be public? If there is an issue surely I'm only answerable to Nominet and my customers, there is no public interest (other than curiosity)?

    What next? Will SEO consultants have to declare their customers so we can all get an equal shot at the number 1 slot rather than those who do the legwork getting the best places?

    Those who don't follow the rules won't follow the new rules, if someone is going to lie to Nominet and create multiple tags knowing it is against the T&C's then they are going to lie to the catch host, it's not rocket science!

    There's not that much skill in programming network IO to stuff data down the line to Nominet :)
     
  19. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Whether it is public or declared to Nominet privately I believe it should at least be the case that declarations are made and these things are documented. I plan to encourage Nominet to do more to ensure the anti avoidance rules are actively policed.

    You and skinner tried introducing rubbish such as this in our last discussion. ☺ As a nominet member there are rules relating to anti avoidance. In order to ensure those rules are effective it would be beneficial for all if formal disclosures were made. There are no such rules, as far as I am aware, in the scenario you have attempted to muddy this issue with.

    Who knows, the multiple tags may be actively colluding with the host from the outset and might not be real at arms length customers at all. Of course people tell lies but having to formally declare relevant interests in order to potentially obtain the use of a resource that is limited doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

    K.



    (from Note 3)
     
  20. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes there are rules, do you know of any violations? If so name & shame them to Nominet. A public register will only get the same level of abuse as the current system so I see no value in this.

    Getting geeky for a moment... If Nominet want to look at it further they only have to look at what tags are connecting from what IP's and the tie up the subnets against the public IP assignment records and they'll know who's using who to run their systems. The information is hardly hidden from Nominet, we have to add the data to the system in order to be able to connect to Nominet in the 1st place. They have the data already.

    As for muddying the water, then why shouldn't SEO be fair to every website owner, why shouldn't petrol prices be fair for all drivers, what is different about domains from everything else? Why is it fair to sell a domain that was caught for a few pounds to en end user for hundreds?
     
  21. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm aware of what I believe to be some but obviously I wouldn't get away with detailing it here. You cannot reliably ascertain that a public declaration wouldn't act as a deterrent against some abuse. I'm suggesting that it might do because the casual would think twice and the careless would be noted by all. It would be great PR for successful hosting services as well.



    Maybe. Some might be smart enough to use multiple, distinctly different numerical subnets. It depends to what level a host is a true ISP.




    Not my interest. Nominet have rules for this activity that apply to members. There's an interest in seeing it policed well by some and probably an interest in it not being policed at all by others. Any Nominet member could decide they wished to engage in drop catching and should have the expectations that the rules they signed up to as a member are properly and throughly administered. That's all. Carry on all you want trying to make comparisons to other unrelated things. :) It doesn't change what I've typed here.
     
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