Domain Manage

Time for Nominet to do something different ?

Discussion in 'Nominet General Information' started by Whois-Search, Feb 17, 2006.

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  1. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    With most of the good "drops" being caught by a handfull of individuals everyday:

    http://www.deleting.co.uk/caught/

    Isn't it time Nominet put a stop to the DAC monopoly ?

    Otherwise it will end up with most of the Nominet database being owned by less than ### companies.

    Nominet have already turned down the idea of a WLS:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/26/nominet_holds_off_on_domain/

    While Verisign are still pushing for that type of service:

    http://www.verisign.com/information...main-central-listing-service/page_001103.html

    Instead.......

    Why doesn't Nominet allow registers to auction off suspended domain names ? Adding another "drop" stage after suspended when the registrant certificate is no longer required.

    This is working well for .com and .net:

    https://www.snapnames.com/preferred_info.jsp

    http://www.enom.com/auctions/default.asp
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    So move from those who are domain aware and can code catching, to those who are domain aware and have deep pockets.

    Looking at the 'results' of catching yesterday I see a spread of old and new tags?

    Also, Verisign are certainly not a company that I would want Nominet to use as a model for conduct :)

    None issue, unless I have missed something new?!
     
  4. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    Most of the names go to people like CENTRASERVE, PDG, QUO-VADIS, TAGNAMES and have done for months if not years.

    It is also known some of the other memberships "work together".

    A change is needed to open the game up even more.

    Random is never random enough when you have DAC's thrashing the hell out of Nominets servers.
     
  5. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    Quickest system? Most dev time ? This was covered to death in two previous threads.

    Need to be talking to Nominet about that.

    How does the change actually change anything? Instead of one group getting them all it will switch to another group getting all the names?!

    Or do you have deeper pockets than those getting names you want ;) ?
     
  6. aquanuke

    aquanuke Well-Known Member

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    Since ive been catching domains ( or atleast trying ) this is the first period ive seen such a good spread.

    Those whom where mentioned alot in the past seem to be reduced to picking up the leftovers. I think they only got 1 today :p

    CHC dropcatcher seemd to be catching more which is good news for those using their services.

    I picked up 4 out of 10 on my list today and the rest I lost out to 6 different TAGS.
     
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  7. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    Glad its not just me. Would be interesting to know whats sparked this off, as things seem 'fairer' than ever... unless of course you dont have a DAC system.

    Nominets rules are simple "First come first served" , so you get that signed request in first after a domain is deleted and its yours. Simple.
     
  8. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    Keep working on your milliseconds then and paying your Nominet fees ........

    Also it was only the recent DAC/Whois changes that caused the spread - soon things will be back to normal.
     
  9. aquanuke

    aquanuke Well-Known Member

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  10. aquanuke

    aquanuke Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. I even considered jacking this in a few weeks back because it was obvious that a few TAGS where not playing the same game.

    Since the changes im happy and as long as it does not revert back then this current system as is *today would seem fair to me.
     
  11. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    Can you explain how an auction system would improve things?

    Surely it would result in good "drops" being bought by a handfull of individuals?! :)
     
  12. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    Depends how it was done.

    If say www.snapnames.com were allowed to have everything from 123-reg.co.uk and auction them off publicly, they would get people bidding from all over the world. This does include the "deep pockets" of companies like Buydomains etc.

    If 123-reg.co.uk were allowed to auction them off on their site then only their customers would see them and bid.

    If dropcatcher.co.uk all of a sudden turned into an auction system and were allowed to use other DAC's to catch names - who knows who would bid then?

    If Nominet auctioned them off like Verisign propose:

    http://www.verisign.com/information...ral-listing-service/page_001103.html#0100002B

    and they made their customers aware of the service then maybe many many UK companies would bid for names.
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    The auction system in .com has been responsible for probably 90% of the price rise in that market.

    When the cost of securing a "great" domain in the .com namespace rose from around $60 (all the catchers used to be flat fee, 1 person in queue before the auction process was brought in) to, well, no upper limit, the consequences are clear as daylight.

    Take a look down the top year-to-date sales at DNJournal http://www.dnjournal.com/ytd-sales-charts.htm and see just how many went to drop catchers (Enom Clubdrop, Pool, Snapnames) and the change leaps into focus - the increase in "cost" to secure some of the best domains is of the order of 50,000% i.e. from $60 to $25,000+.

    The important thing is that it's EXACTLY THE SAME type of names being picked up at $25,000 that were previously fetching $60. Only the system of picking them up has changed - oh, and the buyers! A few years ago there were hundreds (maybe thousands) of people in the drop catching game, now there are perhaps 2 dozen or so parties with seemingly infinitely deep pockets, and everyone else is left with the scraps of minor names at the edge of the interest table.

    Another piece of domain history is relevant here... in the "old" .com drop system, many private parties were doing well with scripts etc. and securing names that would have made anyone turn cartwheels. In the new "money takes all" system there are practically no "amateur" private catchers left - indeed, several of the largest buyers have literally created (or coopted) dozens or even hundreds of registrars just to increase their chances of catching names, and have doubtless spent $xxx,xxx to $x,xxx,xxx in doing so.

    THAT is what happens if you go to an auction. Forget any notion that the "little guy" will get anything after it's highest bidder takes all.

    There is an upside, but it's not what you might first expect. An effective .co.uk drop auction would mean that market forces will push the "average perceived value" of decent .co.uk domains higher and higher, just as it happened in the .com value, so it helps OWNERS not CATCHERS.
     
  14. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    So if whois-search.co.uk dropped tomorrow shouldn't I have a chance to bid on it ?

    Or do I pay Mr DAC master instead.
     
  15. aquanuke

    aquanuke Well-Known Member

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    If the amount you would bid was the same as the amount it would cost to either catch yourself or purchase from a catcher then it makes no difference.

    Most would agree that an auction system would inflate the prices of domains, so by that theory the amount you would need to bid would infact be greater.

    IMO an auction system would not be better.
     
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    As I explained, the auction system has been PROVEN to inflate costs - just look at the .com drop market now compared to 2 years ago.
     
  17. texidriver

    texidriver Active Member

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    who is the "owner" of a dropped .co.uk?

    you want to be "a little guy" who gets to buy dropped domains.

    then sell in the REAL market for millions.

    "The important thing is that it's EXACTLY THE SAME type of names being picked up at $25,000 that were previously fetching $60."

    I bought a house in 1974 for 7000 quid sold it in 1984 for 17700, what is it worth now?

    what is your point?

    are you an owner who wants the rising tide to raise all ships?

    none of us are going to bid $25,000 for a domain, we just don't want to pay
    sedo 100 quid to sell a domain for 150 quid.
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    We're talking about reforming the drop system, not about selling domains on Sedo. Not in this thread, anyway...
     
  19. FC Domains

    FC Domains Well-Known Member

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    What's interesting are the names that pop up on my screen for the domains that I was trying to catch.
    At the moment QUO-VADIS and LIQUIDNAMES seem to have very good systems, but nothing to indicate that it is anything but good code and good tactics.
     
  20. SF

    SF Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again :rolleyes: why are these people just not spending more time on there systems if there not catching anything? instead they spend countless hours thinking and debating rubbish!

    Admin would it be an idea to register domainmoan.co.uk for those who are constantly ermm take a guess! :rolleyes:

    The only person you should be moaning to if your not catching anything is the person who built the system! if you built it yourself spend more time on it ;)
     
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  21. aquanuke

    aquanuke Well-Known Member

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    I dont think this thread is that much of a moan :p

    Everyone seems to agree things are ok at the moment, except for whois-search but I dont think he's a catcher just a very active observer.

    Theres a fine line between discussion and moan.. but this is just a discussion.
     
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