The term "exact match" does NOT apply to hyphenated domains...

[Edwin]

(Wasn't sure which forum this fitted into, so I've popped it in "General")

I'm seeing more and more posts in the sales forums where an exact-match number is quoted for a domain name with 1+ hyphens in it.

At the point that you add a hyphen, the domain's not an exact match any more! Google doesn't treat hyphenated and non-hyphenated domains in the same way... and while it's possible to find examples of hyphenated domains that rank well, they do so despite of, not because of, the hyphen.

 

[Brassneck]

(Wasn't sure which forum this fitted into, so I've popped it in "General")

I'm seeing more and more posts in the sales forums where an exact-match number is quoted for a domain name with 1+ hyphens in it.

At the point that you add a hyphen, the domain's not an exact match any more! Google doesn't treat hyphenated and non-hyphenated domains in the same way... and while it's possible to find examples of hyphenated domains that rank well, they do so despite of, not because of, the hyphen.

Not disagreeing with you, but do you have a reference to where Google actually say this?

Thanks, Stephen

 

[martin-s]

I agree that domains without hyphens rank slightly better than comparable domains with hyphens.

However, the difference is not that significant in my experience.

The value of hyphenated domains is more damaged by lower perceived authority, the fact that the non-hyphenated domain is effectively exactly the same but better and the potential for mistakes when communicating the address.

I would still consider a hyphenated domain an EMD, but would expect a lower ticket price.

 

[Edwin]

http://www.seomoz.org/learn-seo/domain

 

[BREWSTERS]

http://www.seomoz.org/learn-seo/domain

Nothing in that link backs up your previous comments Edwin as to exact match searches.

 

[martin-s]

Doesn't say anywhere that there's a penalty..

Google "5 or 6 bedroom student house" for instance!

 

[Edwin]

Nothing in that link backs up your previous comments Edwin as to exact match searches.

The graph does. It's restating what's been said many, many, many times over the years: there is less of an "SEO bonus" to be gained from hyphenated domains vs their unhyphenated counterparts.

BTW, that's not the source of my assertion (it's something that people who follow SEO "know" as it's been talked about so many times) but it happened to be a document I could find quickly. Here's another one...
http://www.seomoz.org/q/hyphens-in-domain-name (read the comments)

 

[cm1975]

The graph does. It's restating what's been said many, many, many times over the years: there is less of an "SEO bonus" to be gained from hyphenated domains vs their unhyphenated counterparts.

It suggests less of a bonus, rather than no bonus, which people may be reading from the title of the thread. ie. The graph uses the term "Exact Match Hyphenated Domain", rather than say it "does NOT apply to hyphenated domains".

Surely when quoting exact match stats for either hyphenated or non-hyphenated domains, you are only indicating the size of potential market for the domains anyway?

I think most realise that hyphenated domains are not as attractive as the non-hyphenated, and are therefore not as valuable.

 

[Aegean]

I'm sorry, but that SEOmoz article is simply complete misinformation. Not only does Google formally endorse hyphens, they encourage their use when appropriate in any URL (although they discourage the over-use of them):

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=76329


From an SEO point of view it is not in any way a detractor to have a hyphen in a domain name, I myself have several sites at the top of Google with hyphens. Google accepts a hyphen as a formal seperator and will not count the hyphen as part of the letter structure of the domain.

For real world useability in business, obviously having a hyphen in your domain name could cause problems if you expect people to type the domain in.

 

[martin-s]

I agree that our own experiments have shown marginally less of a bonus for hyphenated domains.

 

[tifosi]

As far as experiments go I'm sure many of them - inc those from 'seo experts' - are far from epirical, and more a product of supposition and faith.

I'd rather take what google say than a bunch of seo bible bashers.

S

 

[willbon]

If you plug into the keyword tool your hyphenated domain name, it will give the same results as if the words were separated by a space....

So, for the domain 'cheat-codes' or 'cheat codes', the results show 165k global and 2,900 local...


But if you put the words together as per the non-hyphenated domain... 'cheatcodes', the results show 14.8k global and 170 local....

So in this instance does the hyphenated get better 'love' from the Big G?

 

[Systreg]

It's just a percentage of people involved with domains who don't like hyphens, as far as the general public goes, they have no idea about domains, they don't care, they just see words seperated, and we've all seen how many businesses like to use them to seperate words.

 

[Aegean]

The GKT is designed to display exact matches no matter what is typed, including spelling mistakes like "czeatcodes", as well as nonsense words.. It should display the term data exactly, thus giving you an exact match, which allows for company names, trademarks etc.

However, if you type "cheat codes" and "cheat-codes", then these are the same thing, both include an acknowledged separator, one a space and another a hyphen. Google knows these are commonly used separators. It also knows an underscore is not a commonly used separator.

If you type "cheatcodes", that is a different term, although it consists of the same two words, you have asked the tool to provide you with an exact match. In this case there is no separator, so the match figures will be different.

If I owned a company called Bluecars Ltd, some people may be searching for "bluecars Ltd", some for "bluecars" and some for "blue cars". These are different terms and should reflect different results. However "blue cars" and "blue-cars" are the same thing.

I hope that helps.

 

[Edwin]

It's just domainers who don't like hyphens, as far as the general public goes, they have no idea about domains, they don't care, they just see words seperated, and we've all seen how many businesses like to use them to seperate words.

Not true. Hyphens are a massive pain in the proverbial any time you want people to REMEMBER the URL (i.e. offline) on TV, radio, in print, etc. That's why ads that say "Go to 'X hyphen Y .co.uk'" are so jarring. There's a lot more to marketing than SEO if you're a "real" business.

 

[willbon]

The GKT is designed to display exact matches no matter what is typed, including spelling mistakes like "czeatcodes", as well as nonsense words.. It should display the term data exactly, thus giving you an exact match, which allows for company names, trademarks etc.

However, if you type "cheat codes" and "cheat-codes", then these are the same thing, both include an acknowledged separator, one a space and another a hyphen. Google knows these are commonly used separators. It also knows an underscore is not a commonly used separator.

If you type "cheatcodes", that is a different term, although it consists of the same two words, you have asked the tool to provide you with an exact match. In this case there is no separator, so the match figures will be different.

If I owned a company called Bluecars Ltd, some people may be searching for "bluecars Ltd", some for "bluecars" and some for "blue cars". These are different terms and should reflect different results. However "blue cars" and "blue-cars" are the same thing.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for that Aegean....

So, really GKT result for a two word unhyphenated domain is pretty irrelevant....?

 

[Edwin]

Thanks for that Aegean....

So, really GKT result for a two word unhyphenated domain is pretty irrelevant....?

How did this thread descend into such a car crash of misinformation?

Google rewards exact match domains with a bit of an SEO bonus.

The "reward" is less than it used to be, but it's still there. For sure.

It may reward hyphenated domains with the same keywords in them, but that reward will be less than the unhyphenated version. How much less can - has - will be debated, but LESS nonetheless.

Thus, if you're using "exact match" stats in a post to talk about the SEO benefits of the domain name, they really only apply to the unhyphenated domains.

The keywords however are normal. So "life insurance", "car alarms" etc. and the matching exact-match domains would be "lifeinsurance.co.uk", "caralarms.co.uk".

The phenomenon that some very popular keyphrases show up in GAKT without spaces as well is just down to the fact that a small fraction of people don't even bother to hit the space bar as they're typing. So "lifeinsurance" would ALSO be an exact-match to "lifeinsurance.co.uk" but it's not the ONLY exact-match - the other (main) match is of course "life insurance".

Arguably, life-insurance.co.uk would be second best, but it's not going to be treated as equivalent to lifeinsurance.co.uk by Google for SEO purposes. That is just one of many reasons why "life-insurance.co.uk" is worth no more than a tiny fraction of what "lifeinsurance.co.uk" would be.

 

[Aegean]

Thanks for that Aegean....

So, really GKT result for a two word unhyphenated domain is pretty irrelevant....?

I wouldn't say its irrelevant, it depends on the search data you are trying to acquire. You may wish to know how may people are searching for "blue cars", which is the correct way to type "bluecars" normally.

If you are genuinely looking for real world typed search figures, then most people would type their search phrase in normally, ie, with spaces etc. So for example, if your main term was "Blue Cars", buying the domain "blue-cars.co.uk" would not detract in any way from the term as far as Google is concerned.

However, as Edwin pointed out, in the real world it may be completely impractical to have a hyphen in your name as it is likely to lead to mistakes, especially if you are using media advertising.

 

[Systreg]

Not true. Hyphens are a massive pain in the proverbial any time you want people to REMEMBER the URL (i.e. offline) on TV, radio, in print, etc. That's why ads that say "Go to 'X hyphen Y .co.uk'" are so jarring. There's a lot more to marketing than SEO if you're a "real" business.

Edwin, just because you don't like hyphens and own thousands of unhyphenated names, does not make it untrue. Joe public doesn't care less, many businesses couldn't care less, most businesses can't even see the point in a nice generic that covers their industry, they would rather spend £5 on a hyphenated name or some completely made up name with a uk and the start or end and with a hyphen or 2 in it.

You're thinking from a domain dealer/sellers point of view, from a public point of view, and as someone still relatively new to domaining, having only come across this industry in 2008, hyphens are not a massive pain to me, if I can't remember a domain with a hyphen in it, there's something wrong with my brain

Also, I don't tend to visit websites if I see it on a TV advert, I'll still go to Google and search for whatever I'm looking for, rather than going to an advertised website. Much the same as I never type urls in to my browser to visit a site, I like to Google them first and visit from there.

If I want to look at the weather for my area, I go to Google and search for Yahoo, and visit the site, if I want the xe.com site, rather than type that short url in my browser, I always Google "currency convertor" and visit the site from there.

 

[Edwin]

I see. Because you don't visit sites in TV ads, the multi £billion pound a year TV ad industry must be a complete waste of money. Oh, and the £900 million outdoor advertising market too...