.uk auctions - where will you bid?

[Trigger Happy]

Ok so for big portfolio holders the launch of .uk is obviously a massive downer.

However, for those with a limited number of names or relatively new to the game it is clearly a massive opportunity which many seem reluctant to discuss. However, as a forum for all things to do with .co.uk domains I don't think this should be off limits.

This thread is therefore for those looking at the opportunities.

Some of the big portfolio holders have said that smaller investors will have no chance because all the best names will go to brand name holders or big investors.

However, this doesn't make sense if you look at the numbers. If say 1 million of the 10 million co.uk's have some decent value there is clearly not enough interest in the domain market for all the auctions to be a 'perfectly competitive' market and there WILL be bargains.

Therefore what is the best way to play this?

 

[grantw]

.uk auctions - where will you bid?

I don't understand the question??

Grant

 

[Trigger Happy]

I don't understand the question??

Grant

If the auctions are implemented as currently suggested, how much money would you be prepared to stump up forthe auctions (that will follow the first round of distribution to trademark holders) and what kind of names would you put it towards.

Say if you had 20k to play with would you put a 20k bid on something really good or £500 on a bunch of pretty good names that would be worth at least that in their co.uk form.

 

[grantw]

If the auctions are implemented as currently suggested, how much money would you be prepared to stump up forthe auctions (that will follow the first round of distribution to trademark holders) and what kind of names would you put it towards.

Say if you had 20k to play with would you put a 20k bid on something really good or £500 on a bunch of pretty good names that would be worth at least that in their co.uk form.

Ah, got you

 

[Edwin]

You're not going to be in the auctions under the current proposal unless you:

1. Have a matching trademark (first chance to battle it out)
2. For domains with no trademark taking priority, you have one or more of the existing 3LD

By the time 1. and 2. have finished playing out, there will be nothing decent left for "Landrush".

 

[namealot]

Not sure if there are any full rules as yet ? a lot of TLD’ etc if two Trademarks go for the same name then it goes to auction between them not the general public?

 

[Edwin]

Not sure if there are any full rules as yet ? a lot of TLD’ etc if two Trademarks go for the same name then it goes to auction between them not the general public?

That's why I said "first chance to battle it out".

The rounds are:
1. TM holders fight at auction
2. 3LD domain holders fight at auction
3. Interested parties fight at auction
4. There's nothing of any relevance left by now (also known as "general availability")

 

[markb]

Its a great opportunity to buy cheap .me.uk and .org.uk domains now and then be in with a chance to buy the .uk when they come out.

 

[Trigger Happy]

That's why I said "first chance to battle it out".

The rounds are:
1. TM holders fight at auction
2. 3LD domain holders fight at auction
3. Interested parties fight at auction
4. There's nothing of any relevance left by now (also known as "general availability")

To be fair your are slightly misrepresnting things here and missing out a key factor that the domains must be in use.

Here is this relevant section of the consultation:

Phase 1: Registerd Rights Sunrise
Period during which holders of eligible registered trademarkts can apply for their corresponding domain names. Where their trademark is the only one validated, the applicant may register the domain name. Where there are two or more validated trademarkets applicants may bid at auction for the domain.

Phase 2: Unregistered Rights Sunrise
Period during which holders of registered and unregistered trademarks can apply for their corresponding domain name(s) insofar as they have not been reigstered at an earlier stage. Domain names registered in the third level may constitute an unregistered right provided evidence of use can be shown prior to the qualifying date.

Phase 3: Landrush
Period during which interested parties can seek to register domain name not previously registered through the Registered Rights Sunrise or the Unregistered Rights Sunrise . Where there is only one applicant for a domain, it is awared directly to the applicant. Where there is more than one applicant for a particular domain name, applicants may bid at auction for the domain.

Phase 4: General Availability
As from the start of this phase, domain names that have not been previously registered through the Registered Rights Sunrise, Unregisted Rights Sunrise or the Landrush will be available for registration on a first-come first served basis.

For example all portfolio domains names on co.uk will be available to ANYONE during the landrush phase because they are not in use (as long as there isn't a trademark and they are not being used on me.uk or org.uk).

One thing that hadnt struck me before is how valuable developed websites have become on org.uk or me.uk as if the co.uk hasn't developed they will get a chance to bid at stage 2.

 

[grantw]

For example all portfolio domains names on co.uk will be available to ANYONE during the landrush phase because they are not in use (as long as there isn't a trademark and they are not being used on me.uk or org.uk).

'Use' hasn't been defined, so this statement is a total guess! As I've said before, there are many domains out there being 'used' for email purposes.

Grant

 

[Edwin]

There is also the incredibly gigantic assumption being made that Nominet's proposal will go through without ANY change at all. I see that probability as vanishingly small...

 

[namealot]

That's why I said "first chance to battle it out".

The rounds are:
1. TM holders fight at auction
2. 3LD domain holders fight at auction
3. Interested parties fight at auction
4. There's nothing of any relevance left by now (also known as "general availability")

phase 2 Doesn’t actually mention an auction that I can see ? 1 and 3 do …? I'm sure there will be but just going by what it says ?

Phase 1: Registered Rights Sunrise
may bid at auction for the domain.

Phase 2: Unregistered Rights Sunrise
Period during which holders of registered and unregistered trademarks can apply for their corresponding domain name(s) insofar as they have not been reigstered at an earlier stage. Domain names registered in the third level may constitute an unregistered right provided evidence of use can be shown prior to the qualifying date.

Phase 3: Landrush
may bid at auction for the domain

There will be a lot of names generics, nnn, lll etc that have no trademark or eligibility for other stages and those that have forgotten what they own...? that will make it to landrush at least there has been with all the TLds that have been launched

 

[Edwin]

It's implicit enough that I think it's fair to assume an auction, since there could easily be 2+ competing interests in phase 2.

 

[Trigger Happy]

'Use' hasn't been defined, so this statement is a total guess! As I've said before, there are many domains out there being 'used' for email purposes.

Grant

Maybe. But there are still thousands of domains sitting in portfolios that aren't being used for anything.

There is also the incredibly gigantic assumption being made that Nominet's proposal will go through without ANY change at all. I see that probability as vanishingly small...

This is not a gigantic assumption. In my opinion it is the most likely scenario - they have clearly already done lots of thinking about how they want the process to go and I can't see the submissions of a handful of domainers with vested interests changing anything.

Anybody that doesn't prepare for the possibility of the process being implemented exactly as laid out is missing an opportunity.

My initial steps would be to look over the domains of the big portfolio holders for words that are going to stuggle to prove an unregistered right (eg somthing like cheapholidays) . Check whether they are in use on org.uk or me.uk and then build up a list of names to bid on and the third stage.

 

[Trigger Happy]

And you think that example will sell for what price at auction? £25?

No offence but you're delusional if you believe names of that calibre will go cheaply. I do agree that there'll be opportunities though, especially for buyers with deep pockets.

I never said it would go cheaply. However, with 100,000s of good names coming up for auction at the same time I think there is going to be loads of stuff that goes for less than its price in a perfecly competitive markets meaning thousands of opportunities.

This thread is to discuss the best way to make the most of that.

 

[getmein]

It's a interesting, albeit abstract discussion until the consultation is finished. My view is that 'evidence of use' is highly problematic for Nominet. If merely registering the domain is not 'evidence of use' (or perhaps intended use) then whatever they come up with will be highly subjective. Parking, redirects, using for email, server holding page - illustrate 'evidence of use' - whether that will be enough, only time will tell. Nonetheless, their final determination on what constitutes evidence of use may provide opportunities but I think these will predominantly be for the owners of the existing domains.

If they determine parking for example, is not evidence of use - then you'll have the rather perverse situation where a holder of a developed .org.uk on a generic term (with no TM) will be able to take the domain during phase 2, if the holder of the .co.uk doesn't meet the evidence of use criteria (I'm assuming there are not that many .me.uk sites developed). So that definitely represents a great opportunity for people who find themselves in that situation - but that boat has already sailed, you'll either be eligible retrospectively or not.

I think once the TM holders, existing registrants and deep pocketed investors have had their fill - there won't be much left and at £20 a year registration, it will make much of whats left a marginal opportunity at best.

 

[figleaf007]

Hopefully not too stupid a question - if I have a hyphen version of a domain name, will I be able to go for the non-hyphenated version in phase 2?

 

[getmein]

Hopefully not too stupid a question - if I have a hyphen version of a domain name, will I be able to go for the non-hyphenated version in phase 2?

I can't see how they could - however, you could well have an owner of a hyphenated domain who has a TM on the non-hyphenated phrase, who did not get hold of the .co.uk and under the current proposals would be able to get the .uk domain during phase 1.

'All registrants are equal, but some registrants are more equal than others'

 

[figleaf007]

Thanks - that does seem silly when the non-hyphenated is not even in use, whereas mine has thousands of visitors a week and a proper website on it.

 

[Trigger Happy]

Thanks - that does seem silly when the non-hyphenated is not even in use, whereas mine has thousands of visitors a week and a proper website on it.

I think in this instance you would get a decent shot at stage 2 as an unregistered trademark.