Help an idiot with an email/nameserver setup query

[ian]

The idiot is me!

I'm experiencing more and more instances that my emails for one of my businesses are not being received (sending is fine). I currently point my nameservers to the host, and from there have a web presence and emails using pop etc. There are no spam/block filters in place, so it doesn't make sense, aside from I guess if the host is using a third party spam service that blocks before they even hit my account.

I was considering setting up with Google Business Email as I've always found the individual gmail account I have to work perfectly. However, Google requires you point MX records at their service, which I know I can do through the host (cpanel I assume), but wouldn't that still cause emails not to be received? Is there another solution that avoids emails filtering through the host, as I note Nominet's online service using my registrant cannot apply mx type changes.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Adam H]

When you say they are not being received do you mean from your website or when you physically send an email to another company ? If its the later you need to make sure you have your SPF, DKIM and as a added safegaurd dmarc records. It could be that your emails are not being validated and is being refused by the receiving server maybe ?

Your host should be able to trace whats happened to the said mails if you can identify which ones are not being received.

You can run your email through this to see if it validates properly : http://mail-tester.com/

I would however recommend Google Business email, you do need to change all the mx records in Cpanel but its pretty quick and Googles setup guides you through it from start to finish.

 

[ian]

Thanks guys. My existing host recommend changing the MX records in cPanel, but wouldn't that mean that emails are still sent to the host first, and forwarded on from there, which surely means the problem of received emails (sent direct, not through website) will be the same? Equally, wouldn't emails also go down if the hosts server carrying cPanel go down too?

 

[Adam H]

MX records are records which tell the mail where it should be going, so if your current host is your DNS provider then its looked up there to see where mails get directed too.

Providing you havent got a silly low TTL set on the records your server should be able to go down and it wont effect delivery of emails for some considerable time, for example if after you have set it all up and its working, go and change the TTL to something like 86400 which means the record will only be updated once a day. It does mean however if you were to change your MX records again you would need to plan ahead and reduce the TTL again before the switch otherwise you will be waiting a day at a time for it to update changes.

You could use a DNS service as a better option which was discussed in another thread recently , thus giving you a separate DNS , separate email and separate web server.

 

[AssetDomains]

I've used the Gmail service for a while very robust. Just change the mx records shouldn't get near your hosts spam filters

 

[invincible]

The idiot is me!

I'm experiencing more and more instances that my emails for one of my businesses are not being received (sending is fine.

So where are these emails ending up, or have you no idea? Returned to sender? A black hole somewhere? Is there a pattern to what isn't being received and can you replicate it this non receipt?

 

[ian]

So if I want to cut out the host provider completely (which I suspect is where the block takes place), I'd need to use something like dnsmadeeasy, cloudflare or rackspace (won't use those idiots), and from there, point all web traffic to my host, and email traffic via mx to Google Business for example? Is it that simple! What redundancy is in place should one of those providers have down time, or is that generally unheard of? (nothing is business critical).

Do Google not offer this kind of service direct?

So where are these emails ending up, or have you no idea? Returned to sender? A black hole somewhere? Is there a pattern to what isn't being received and can you replicate it this non receipt?

I have no idea, they are not being rejected at the senders side, just vanishing. I know of a few occasions of it happening, such as from servers I run etc, but of the other occasions, such as regular customers, they've been able to get in touch with me via other means.

 

[invincible]

So if I want to cut out the host provider completely (which I suspect is where the block takes place), I'd need to use something like dnsmadeeasy, cloudflare or rackspace (won't use those idiots), and from there, point all web traffic to my host, and email traffic via mx to Google Business for example? Is it that simple! What redundancy is in place should one of those providers have down time, or is that generally unheard of? (nothing is business critical).

Should be but obviously nobody can vouch for you implementing it flawlessly.

Anything can potentially go offline or experience problems. It's just to what level it does and what the knock on effect is. I would hope Google's mail service is built on a massive redundant infrastructure so will be much better than a local email server running on your home server or a single VPS. You may find this post of mine of interest.

Do Google not offer this kind of service direct?

No. Google, as a mail server provider, aren't a DNS provider, unless you move your domain names to their registrar (domains.google). Nominet, as a domain name registry, aren't a DNS provider either.

Other premium DNS providers include DYN.com (their managed DNS product). NameCheap.com also offer both free DNS (you don't have to keep your domain names at their registrar) and a premium DNS product too.

 

[ian]

Thanks all, at the moment I use the truly horrific method of sending my domain via nameservers to my host, then in cpanel auto-forward my domain emails to my gmail account for delivery; and then use that same gmail account for sending out from the domain using smtp. The weakest link being the host, and I'd imagine sending out as my domain from a generic gmail account probably doesn't help my rating score!

 

[pberry4032]

I would say this is down to a missing SPF record. When ours has dropped off for just a few hours for whatever reason, emails start bouncing/vanishing.

 

[ian]

One thing I'll say is that it is a frigging nightmare owning a few businesses, with mountains of email accounts and logins for different services (servers, email, networks, payment gateways, accounts etc). I envy those with just a single gmail account for everything

 

[boxfish]

One thing I'll say is that it is a frigging nightmare owning a few businesses, with mountains of email accounts and logins for different services (servers, email, networks, payment gateways, accounts etc). I envy those with just a single gmail account for everything

It's tough at the top.

 

[ian]

Ok, so I decided to take a look at dnsmadeeasy using their free trial, but despite several conversations with their support team, I still cannot work out how to set a domain in their system so all web traffic for my website goes to my hosting provider TSO. I supplied them with the domain name in question, and the nameservers I currently use as follows:

ns1.tsohost.co.uk 185.52.27.27
ns2.tsohost.co.uk 95.142.155.4
ns3.tsohost.co.uk 95.142.154.15

They came back by telling me to I wouldn't use TSO anymore, and to apply these settings, which make zero sense to me:

domainnameexample.co.uk. 2557 IN MX 0 domainnameexample.co.uk.
domainnameexample.co.uk. 2558 IN A 111.11.111.11

No idea where they got that IP address from, or what 2557 and 2558 mean.

Anyone care to explain it in a language I may understand

 

[pberry4032]

So tell me what you want to achieve again? Web traffic to TSO and email somewhere else?

 

[ian]

So tell me what you want to achieve again? Web traffic to TSO and email somewhere else?

Simple as that, web traffic to my website hosted by TSO; email via MX to Google Business Email. Thankfully isn't a mission critical domain, just using as a test.

 

[martin-s]

If you're using dnsmadeeasy, you need to add their ns1.whatever.com type entries at Nominet.

Then you copy whatever DNS records you have at TSO currently into the dnsmadeeasy system. If you aren't changing anything else, you can copy them exactly.

Ideally the other way around of course!

And you can ignore the IP bindings on nameservers - I don't ever bother with glue records.

 

[ian]

If you're using dnsmadeeasy, you need to add their ns1.whatever.com type entries at Nominet.

Then you copy whatever DNS records you have at TSO currently into the dnsmadeeasy system. If you aren't changing anything else, you can copy them exactly.

Ideally the other way around of course!

And you can ignore the IP bindings on nameservers - I don't ever bother with glue records.

Thanks, but where in their system do you enter these details; the A records? That section doesn't have a straight forward field to enter them in, shows the following:

Name: ? .domainnameexample.co.uk.
IP: ?
Dynamic DNS ?
TTL 1800

 

[Adam H]

Sounds like your having a bit of a mare Ian, If its not a business critical website by the sounds of it you will find cloudflare alot more user-friendly , cloudflare you add the domain, it scans your current DNS entries for you and once done it tells you to change your nameservers................thats it. No manual entry of records.

 

[ian]

haha, I'll get there in the end, just playing around for now! On a similar point, for anyone with Google Business Email, even though it states you get an email address such as ian[at]domainnameexample.co.uk, will it also catch any other emails on that domain, so anything[at]domainnameexample.co.uk?

Yes I know, most of you are wondering how I even manage to get up in the morning, let alone run an web business.

 

[invincible]

haha, I'll get there in the end, just playing around for now! On a similar point, for anyone with Google Business Email, even though it states you get an email address such as ian[at]domainnameexample.co.uk, will it also catch any other emails on that domain, so anything[at]domainnameexample.co.uk?

Yes I know, most of you are wondering how I even manage to get up in the morning, let alone run an web business.

I think someone's going to have to TeamViewer in and do it for you, although I imagine you'd be ultra paranoid and not let them.

If you turn on catch all, in the appropriate place, yes. You'll likely find that in about 2 weeks time. Spare us in between please.