Domain Manage

Registrar dishonesty

Discussion in 'Domain Name Scams' started by feKIX, Dec 2, 2009.

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  1. feKIX United Kingdom

    feKIX Active Member

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    Either this is extremely coincidental or I am very unlucky!

    Sometimes when I go to register a domain that has high search volumes, my system seems to just freeze up whilst in the middle of the purchase and I cant seem to finish the transaction.
    Low and behold, when I later attempt to buy the domain (usually next day)...the domain has been registered!!!

    This has happened on at least a dozen occassions. Im not stating the registrars name, but I believe I am being deliberately frozen out whilst someone in the office decides to register it for themselves.

    Am I paranoid or does this type of thing really happen?

    Answers on a postcard please...or just here in the Acorn threads/PM. My email is paul@daly.me if you prefer more privacy.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    .com names or .co.uk names?
     
  4. feKIX United Kingdom

    feKIX Active Member

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    This particular one was a dot com, but I think it has been both - its happened to me at least a dozen times.
     
  5. fish United Kingdom

    fish Well-Known Member

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    have you tried a different browser on the registrar's site? it may be something simple (yet frustrating) as that
     
  6. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    You say it has occured on at least a dozen occasions. If it has, why didn't you learn from it after the first few times and stop using the Registrar? Also are each of the "at least a dozen domain names" registered to the same other Registrant, or limited number of other Registrants, or are they all registered to totally different other Registrants?
     
  7. feKIX United Kingdom

    feKIX Active Member

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    The reason why I didnt stop using the registrar is simple. Like I mentioned I cant be sure its not coincidence or chance. Do you not think it would be a little over zealous to suddenly assume everyones against you and show no trust at all?!!

    I assume by the fact you say "why didn't you learn" invincible, means you think it is actually happening?

    If I could say 100% they were all owned by the same person I would have a simple answer and wouldn't need to post this thread. The simple fact is Im not sure. At first I just assumed it was coincendence so I didnt bother to check. Part of me saw it as a sort of compliment..the names I am choosing and want to register must be fairly good if someones trying to nab them quickly. Bear in mind, I have only been in the domain industry for around 18 months, it took me time to see how 'cut-throat' the industry can be.

    I then thought maybe the registrar sell a list compiled of domains searched for and if someone can see its been in a shopping basket but not actually purchased well then Im sure theres many a shark who would pounce and try to sell it 'back' to them.

    fish ; explain the browser thing a bit more to me please..
     
  8. retired_member21

    retired_member21 Retired Member

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  9. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    You suggest that you couldn't be sure that it wasn't a coincidence or a chance, however surely your concerns would have been raised by the tenth of the eleventh time? I wouldn't call five times over zealous.

    Well you could say whether they're registered to the same Registant, a small selection of Registrants or twelve different Registrants. Are those Registrants a million miles apart or are they all located in the same town/city? If you listed the domain names here, we might be able to see for ourselves (although I get the impression you don't want or cannot do that).

    I doubt that anyone here can state what any particular Registrar might do. However if you can contemplate them doing something, I am sure they could as well.
     
  10. afx United Kingdom

    afx Active Member Exclusive Member

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    Domain front running is nothing new in gtld's. Netsol paids out a million dollars in a class action lawsuit settlement, despite defending the practice and maintaining they've done nothing wrong.

    It would be interesting to know which .uk registrars are doing this (if any).
     
  11. jasman United Kingdom

    jasman Active Member

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    Are you sure the names were registered on the date you attempted to buy them, and not before? Some crappy registrars indicate that a name is available if their server couldn't connect to the whois or some other error arises. Then during the reg request it would become apparent the name cannot be registered.

    Statistically, there is a tiny chance that an available name becomes taken in the time it takes you to add to basket and check out. But this happening over again 3 or more times, no chance. Not unless you're trying to register names as they drop or you take a long bloody time to register them! You shouldn't need to wait until you've lost 12 names to figure that out.
     
  12. rob

    rob Founding Member

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    Nothing would suprise me with .com net org etc , but .uk would.
     
  13. afx United Kingdom

    afx Active Member Exclusive Member

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    Very possible in some of the cases as Jasman states, as some registrars use cached copies of the whois. These might be out by minutes or hours but not days.

    Why don't you name the registrar who you think is doing this in .uk and members here can keep an eye out also.

    If it is one of the big boys, 123-reg etc. I dare say nothing will happen and Nominet wont be interested. However if it's Joe Shmo small reistrar I bet they'll act if proven.
     
  14. feKIX United Kingdom

    feKIX Active Member

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    No Jasman..Im not entirely sure, only the registrar could tell me that I suppose.

    I dont want to name the registrar, purely because I haven't all the facts. Obviously, If I genuinely feel (or find out) it is a case of domain front running, as you put it afx, I will shout the name from the rooftops.

    This Netsol case, and from what others seem to be saying in this thread, it seems this does actually happen especially in the top extensions, so from now on I will document it for future reference.

    I will speak candidly to the registrar and to Nominet about it and go from there.

    Would it solve the problem if I were to set up as a registrar and search the names through myself or would this still happen regardless?

    Thanks for all the input/info guys.
     
  15. accelerator United Kingdom

    accelerator Well-Known Member

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    If you wanted to be absolutely sure you couldn't get caught out on .co.uk then get your own tag. However, I can say that I've never noticed a problem when using HeartInternet.co.uk.

    With .com etc, I've never noticed a problem with GoDaddy.com. However, I am sure that some other companies are less trustworthy and could well believe that this kind of thing still happens, even after the Network Solutions case.

    Rgds
     
  16. nnh United Kingdom

    nnh Active Member

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    Doing a look up has always been dodgy...years ago you could pass it off as just people rushing for the same names, and maybe that is still true today in new markets. Using any web site or software is a risk, I used one site a few years ago (not a registrar) for a .org.uk check and within 24hrs all names were registered. They were all single word generics from different markets, it was obvious the site owner was saving searches and picking names. Thats a domainer!!!

    Network Solutions has always been associated with dodgy practice and I think that is still the case.

    I use 123-reg for single look ups, but even there about two years ago I thought I had a problem...

    Find one you feel confident with and stick to them.
     
  17. afx United Kingdom

    afx Active Member Exclusive Member

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    If it's a co.uk just use nic.uk for your searches.

    If it's for a gtld's there's no way to avoid the possibility of front running by the registrar unless you become a registrar. However, at a guess I would say you wont be interested in becoming a gtld registrar due to the application fees (2.5k USD), annual ICANN fees (4000 USD) etc and then having to run your own whois server with associated cost of hardware and hosting etc.
     
  18. feKIX United Kingdom

    feKIX Active Member

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    I was told to never assume afx. :D

    Well I must say I do feel better now, Im not so paranoid and I can actuallyfeel I can keep trusting my instinct.

    I have had some correspondance from the registrar that seems a little, how shall I put it..sheepish. Although I haven't actually stated the problem to them (only asked a few questions so far) and they responded with "if you want to take this further then write to us". Now as I havent stated the term front running, it seems they already know what Im about to say.... :?

    Like I stated before, Im no big boy in this game...but if any of you bigger boys want to come and play with me, just let me know. I could do with the help. I dont need people standing behind me jeering at the registrar, more knowledge and experience to help me argue my case (which is maybe futile?) and let me walk away with some dignity and integrity.

    So......where do I go from here? It seems my judgements were right but is it a case of just walking away and learning from this or do I dig my heels in and start shouting the odds?
     
  19. afx United Kingdom

    afx Active Member Exclusive Member

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    If it's gtld's forget it, as said, there is no guaranteed way to avoid it unless you become a registrar.

    If you have solid evidence (which I'm not sure how you've achieved) it's happening in .uk, I think this is news. No harm in speaking to Nominet to get their perspective, if they even have one.

    I can't say I've read every one of Nom's t's & c's. Perhaps it is within the rules, I dont know, you'd have to ask them.

    Whats your end game in this ? If you want it to stop happening for .uk's, just use the whois search box at nic.uk for your look ups and move on.
     
  20. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

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    It was understanding that nominet don't like members even caching or logging look ups (I can't remember whether that was official of just a post i read) so I imagine this would be frowned on too.
     
  21. crabfoot United Kingdom

    crabfoot Active Member

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    There's a thing that happens with a lot of US registrars - you look up a name, they provisionally reg it (as if waiting for a snailmail response). If you try to reg it elsewhere, it comes up as registered - you can only reg it at the place you looked it up, or wait 4 days. After 4 days they have to drop it or pay for it, mostly they drop it.
     
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