A look at Alexa and .org.uk sites

[Edwin]

Ok, there are 1,043 .org.uk websites listed amongst the 1,000,000 busiest sites in the world, as maintained by Alexa (they're not a fantastically reliable measure of traffic, but it's still the "best available" data).

Of those 1,043 .org.uk websites...
- 589 (56%) will get the .uk under "oldest first" precedence
- 454 (44%) will lose out to a different extension, either .co.uk or .me.uk

I'm relying on the kindness of others for occasional DAC access, so I cannot go into more detail (e.g. how many of the 454 have the .co.uk as a "backup") but this at least gives some indication of the consequences of adopting the "oldest first" approach. Remember, under ".co.uk wins" the figures above would be 0% and 100% respectively.

One more data point: 95 of the 589 (i.e. 16%) don't have the equivalent .co.uk domain registered. 84% of them do, but the .org.uk registration precedes it.

If we strip out the 95 "uncontested wins" where there's no contention then the data looks like this:
- 494 (52%) get the .uk under "oldest first"
- 454 (48%) miss out

---------
Here's the data file Alexa provides with all 1,000,000 sites in it if you would like to contribute your own analysis
http://s3.amazonaws.com/alexa-static/top-1m.csv.zip

 

[viceroy]

Good analysis, are you going to do something similar for .co.uk?

 

[Edwin]

Good analysis, are you going to do something similar for .co.uk?

Thanks. Not planning to, there are too many. Someone with DAC and a script should feel free to have a crack at it if they feel so inclined.

(NOTE: I used Microsoft Access to process the Alexa data file and select just the .org.uk records from the 1,000,000 total records - but I guess anyone with database/spreadsheet skills can use their favourite tool to do the same (or I dare say "grep" might work, for Penguin fans)

 

[Alien]

Interesting, thanks Edwin.

I have a site within the 'lose out' category. We don't own the very old .co.uk variant and this is not being used by the current owner.

So, unless they don't want the potentially new .uk domain, looks like we'll miss out under the current proposal draft...

 

[Stephen]

.co.uk

Thanks for providing data.

In the list supplied there are 14,052 .co.uk domains which is 93% of the combined .co.uk and .org.uk total on the list.

Working on some other anlaysis and will report back when I have something.

 

[foz]

If we strip out the 95 "uncontested wins" where there's no contention then the data looks like this:
- 494 (52%) get the .uk under "oldest first"
- 454 (48%) miss out

That's a significant encroachment on .co.uk holders IMO.

But as you say, we are unsure what .org.uk owners have the .co.uk too at present.

 

[Stephen]

Some .co.uk losers

Under the current proposal, these .co.uk domains on the list of sites searched for,
will loose the right to the .uk to either .org.uk or .me.uk

ee.co.uk
wired.co.uk
audible.co.uk
capitaloneonline.co.uk
shopzilla.co.uk
cheapoair.co.uk
housetohome.co.uk
freelancer.co.uk
gap.co.uk
fxpro.co.uk
itpro.co.uk
eastcoast.co.uk
opening-times.co.uk
instyle.co.uk
dreams.co.uk
gamefly.co.uk
art.co.uk
southbankcentre.co.uk
postcodelottery.co.uk
football-shirts.co.uk
metrobankonline.co.uk
skates.co.uk
everylastdrop.co.uk
classiccarsforsale.co.uk
found.co.uk
mankind.co.uk
greenwichmeantime.co.uk
easybus.co.uk
alibris.co.uk
history.co.uk
crunch.co.uk
reveal.co.uk
bankofamerica.co.uk
creation.co.uk
cable.co.uk
radley.co.uk
gamestop.co.uk
mypostoffice.co.uk
bplans.co.uk
daynurseries.co.uk
vi.co.uk
caravantalk.co.uk
forecast.co.uk
removalsvan.co.uk
cipr.co.uk
hotmail.co.uk
dealmonster.co.uk
furnish.co.uk
unwins.co.uk
its.co.uk
ny.co.uk
toast.co.uk
smartparts.co.uk
londondirectory.co.uk
user-guides.co.uk
about.co.uk
citb.co.uk
toms.co.uk
thehideout.co.uk
adams.co.uk
herbalife.co.uk
skinflint.co.uk
brompton.co.uk
londonstudent.co.uk
bes.co.uk
uksc.co.uk
saa.co.uk
environmentjob.co.uk
bic.co.uk
monetise.co.uk
clock.co.uk
retweet.co.uk
slack.co.uk
outdoorworld.co.uk
homecare.co.uk
mobicity.co.uk
stpauls.co.uk
searchconsultancy.co.uk
workspace.co.uk
plccenter.co.uk
ampulla.co.uk
tanos.co.uk
custard.co.uk
storage.co.uk
llac.co.uk
biblio.co.uk
forward.co.uk
pdcf.co.uk
flowersdirect.co.uk
links-uk.co.uk
penguinpages.co.uk
opalonline.co.uk
netcetera.co.uk
assetz.co.uk
iprospect.co.uk
nortonfinance.co.uk
homemove.co.uk
national-insurance-number.co.uk
bpma.co.uk
open-directory.co.uk
print2canvas.co.uk
clicky.co.uk
pgtips.co.uk
unbound.co.uk
variety.co.uk
roundtable.co.uk
sova.co.uk
free-stuff.co.uk
forestforum.co.uk
bni.co.uk
agora.co.uk
timeforyou.co.uk
cams.co.uk
build.co.uk
wbc.co.uk
svp.co.uk
damaris.co.uk
mentalhealthy.co.uk
yacf.co.uk
rias.co.uk
tubesearch.co.uk
mbtshoesstore.co.uk
atlantic.co.uk
singletraction.co.uk
addict.co.uk
no-worries.co.uk
topmail.co.uk
mortgagesolutions.co.uk
the-exiles.co.uk
freeonlinegames.co.uk
younglondon.co.uk
firstaid.co.uk
bmag.co.uk
ukvisas.co.uk
parenting.co.uk
thebelfry.co.uk
bnpparibas.co.uk
ascii.co.uk
cial.co.uk
harpers.co.uk
studentcash.co.uk
gro.co.uk
freesamples.co.uk
openprovider.co.uk
upandrunning.co.uk
guiders.co.uk
muddypaws.co.uk
socialcare.co.uk
dcarter.co.uk
pims.co.uk
curtains4u.co.uk
fta.co.uk
happier.co.uk
watchestore.co.uk
atwork.co.uk
alli.co.uk
peacehaven.co.uk
planet.co.uk
sellandbuy.co.uk
sdi.co.uk
theatreroyal.co.uk
investorsintelligence.co.uk
cheapwatchuk.co.uk
tamba.co.uk
rmhh.co.uk
bva.co.uk
benedict.co.uk
free-bingo-sites.co.uk
clowd.co.uk
pareto.co.uk
radiocity.co.uk
allianceonline.co.uk
prospects.co.uk
smiles.co.uk
scottjordan.co.uk
gamefair.co.uk
usedmac.co.uk
motherofthebrideoutfits.co.uk
popupstands.co.uk
constructionsupport.co.uk
suncamp.co.uk
destinationflorida.co.uk
lovethedogs.co.uk
paydayloans.co.uk
dwhs.co.uk
risq.co.uk
oba.co.uk
tfl.co.uk

There are other .co.uk domains that would loose out but this gives you the flavour of certain businesses that will not be able to obtain the .uk under the current proposal.

Note the above are the ones that will not be entitled many many more on the list that are entitled to the domain will not claim the equivalent .uk for a variety of reasons,
and will regret the fact eventually that they don't have the .uk.

Thanks to GrantW for supplying the raw data.

 

[Retired_Member38]

You might want to remove that Brighton Belles one, or at least mark it nsfw

 

[Stephen]

You might want to remove that Brighton Belles one, or at least mark it nsfw

Thanks have removed it, sorry could not check each website.

 

[Systreg]

I've checked 512 of my domains, I'll lose out to .UK to the tune of 165 (32%) of my domains going to other extensions, namely:

I lose 68 .co.uk to org.uk
I lose 8 .co.uk to me.uk
I lose 3 .co.uk to ltd.uk
I lose 1 me.uk to .co.uk (that's fair, me.uk shouldn't be entitled)
I lose 85 org.uk's to .co.uk (that's fair, org.uk shouldn't be entitled)

I'm completely opposed to .UK being introduced, as per the original consultation, .UK was supposed to be for business and for supposed security implementation via DNSSEC, now Nominet moved the goal posts again. All of a sudden, businesses don't seem that important any more, as it's not for business now, it's for everyone and DNSSEC appears to have dropped right down the list of priorities and is now not compulsory, it's now more for filling the Nominet coffers in any way possible.

I acquired all of my .co.uk domains based solely on the fact that .co.uk does what it says on the tin, we've always been told by Nominet that .co.uk is the domain to have, we already have our UK domains, we don't need them selling to us a second time around, or diluting the .co.uk by introducing .UK and giving it to owners of other extensions. There's no need for .UK to be introduced, it causes nothing but hassle and complete confusion in the UK name space.

Had Nominet still held that it was for business, I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it, and as I mentioned in a post on here during the first consultation, if it was aimed at businesses, then it should be for legitimate businesses only.

By that, I mean verifiable companies listed at Companies House, and not to include domain investors who own a domain related business, which would allow them to be able to register multiple names off the back of it. It should have just been for the purpose that if a legit business wanted a particular domain name, they could apply to register it, no multiple registrations, that way, it's the business community who would benefitted

 

[GreyWing]

By that, I mean verifiable companies listed at Companies House, and not to include domain investors who own a domain related business, which would allow them to be able to register multiple names off the back of it. It should have just been for the purpose that if a legit business wanted a particular domain name, they could apply to register it, no multiple registrations, that way, it's the business community who would benefitted

The companies how thing can't work either mate, people trade in company names in the same way that people trade in domain names. Only as far as I know they don't need to pay a renewal on them, they just label them as dormant.

 

[Systreg]

The companies how thing can't work either mate, people trade in company names in the same way that people trade in domain names. Only as far as I know they don't need to pay a renewal on them, they just label them as dormant.

Maybe so, but it would be pointless for that person buying a registered company name, with the sole intention of being able to register multiple domains to that company, because as in my quote above, they wouldn't be allowed to, they can only register a domain related to their business/niche, not multiple domains, there would be no benefit in buying a company name off someone to try and do so.

[edit]

It would be easy for Nominet to keep track off, x company owns x domain, they can't now buy another one, and another, and another, that would stop people buying business names with the intention of regging multiple names.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I've checked 512 of my domains, I'll lose out to .UK to the tune of 165 (32%) of my domains going to other extensions, namely:

I lose 68 .co.uk to org.uk
I lose 8 .co.uk to me.uk
I lose 3 .co.uk to ltd.uk
I lose 1 me.uk to .co.uk (that's fair, me.uk shouldn't be entitled)
I lose 85 org.uk's to .co.uk (that's fair, org.uk shouldn't be entitled)

I'm completely opposed to .UK being introduced, as per the original consultation, .UK was supposed to be for business and for supposed security implementation via DNSSEC, now Nominet moved the goal posts again. All of a sudden, businesses don't seem that important any more, as it's not for business now, it's for everyone and DNSSEC appears to have dropped right down the list of priorities and is now not compulsory, it's now more for filling the Nominet coffers in any way possible.

I acquired all of my .co.uk domains based solely on the fact that .co.uk does what it says on the tin, we've always been told by Nominet that .co.uk is the domain to have, we already have our UK domains, we don't need them selling to us a second time around, or diluting the .co.uk by introducing .UK and giving it to owners of other extensions. There's no need for .UK to be introduced, it causes nothing but hassle and complete confusion in the UK name space.

Had Nominet still held that it was for business, I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it, and as I mentioned in a post on here during the first consultation, if it was aimed at businesses, then it should be for legitimate businesses only.

By that, I mean verifiable companies listed at Companies House, and not to include domain investors who own a domain related business, which would allow them to be able to register multiple names off the back of it. It should have just been for the purpose that if a legit business wanted a particular domain name, they could apply to register it, no multiple registrations, that way, it's the business community who would benefitted

I doubt anyone outside of you or other drop catchers is going to care too much though - you're going to be seen as collateral damage and plough ahead with it regardless.

Plus 32% of your domains is awfully high... but when you are looking at someone who's thread creation history is all "Domain for sale. Caught today...." And "want to sell - drop catching slots for tomorrow" your lost stats are going to be off the scale compared to most others.

If anyone is serious about fighting nominet they need to find more champions for the cause who have a legitimate cause for complaint in the publics eye. I'm just not feeling like you'd be able to get any sympathy or make a good case study as to why .uk shouldn't be launched. "Domainer loses 165 domains from a massive squatting portfolio that were bought for reg fee" is going to be the angle anyone outside of here took if they looked at it.


The list Stephen has posted provides surprisingly few good examples too I thought. I only had a very quick look earlier but I've just taken a bit of a deeper inspection. Many of the sites on the domains are low quality (football-shirts.co.uk), look like a near certain legal loss anyway (retweet.co.uk, hotmail.co.uk), or clearly don't care about type ins in the first place (bingo site with two hyphens, don't own the normal version).

To me, it still looks like the losses to 'real' businesses is going to be minimal. Sure it'll suck if you own free-bingo-sites and don't get a freebie... but its pretty clear sites like that only exist to suck up some seo traffic. Thats absolutely fine - I have sites doing the same. But you won't suffer any loss if you don't get the .uk in those cases.

 

[Systreg]

A number of my lost stats are for domains I bought for £xx,xxx a bit over a year ago, that might be small money to you, to others it's a lot, not everything is a catch or a hand reg.

There are also a number of domains I bought where I'll be in line to get the .UK, along with the .UK of 347 of my other .co.uk domains, but I don't really want them, I'll be forced to buy them even though I shouldn't have to, I don't want .UK, I already own .co.uk's, I don't need them twice in the same name space.

You always jump on and try to put down everything that in any way goes against you getting your hands on your that paydayloans.uk name, to me, that appears to be your sole purpose for posting on here, to try and sway things to your way of thinking, with one main thing in mind, nothing else.

 

[Retired_Member38]

That last paragraph is nonsense - I've openly being suggesting things which wouldn't benefit me the most. Plus I suspect that domain is way less valuable than you think it is. If any of the big players would want it, why didn't they buy the .co.uk already? Its been parked/unused for years. Then look at the recent payday cleanup... no affiliates ranking that aren't massive brands already. So if you can't rank a domain and you can't sell it... what do you do with it?

 

[Retired_Member38]

fxpro / hotmail would be the best poster boys for 'no' to .uk - push the security angle of domains like that falling into the wrong hands.

Though that angle goes away if they take the .org.uk's via legal action right now. I certainly wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of legal action from either...

 

[retired_member29]

I would be very very surprised if the oldest registrant of non co.uk get .uk if direct.uk goes ahead. Co.uk should get .uk with maybe an appeal option. There are many millions of uk domains but i would imagine the appeal rate for direct.uk for non co.uk would be doable with an unbiased nominet employee/panel?...

What is the probabitly of oldest non co.uk registrants getting direct.uk do you think?.

 

[Retired_Member38]

You'd be very very surprised if they went with a proposal that they've already put out? Clearly that is the number 1 option on the table currently from Nominets view. My only real surprise is that they didn't push for anything involving auctions, which would have been a real nice earner for them.

I'm not sure how viable an appeal route would be - you'd need some very clear rules on what was acceptable and what wasn't. That alone could take months/years to sort out. And they'd probably need a pretty large non refundable fee to enter the appeal process, to sort out people just seeing the appeal as a speculative gamble and worth rolling the dice on.

 

[retired_member29]

I guess i assumed common sense would prevail and these are still just proposals, cant be fair on those 1000s, 10,000s of business's? who have spent good money on co.uk domains. And im sure there are people here who wouldn't be to comfortable having sold co.uks for big money to there customers for there customers to lose out on direct.uk.

And I'm sure just you Monkey could draw up some basic point based criteria to weed out the have a go Joe appealer's.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I doubt there is 10's of thousands of businesses build on non predating domains in the first place. Bear in mind most of these little businesses will be the only registrant - they'll get the domain by default (assuming they know about it / aren't an idiot).

I'm going to guess there aren't even 500 "real" (using any normal man in the street opinion for what real is) businesses in all of England who're going to lose their domain in the first period of this under the current proposal. Switch it around to giving them to .co.uk and I guess the numbers will be about the same, but generally charities/small non profits losing out rather than businesses.

More than that will definitely lose out of stupidity and not taking their domain up when they had the chance. But when they realise this later, they can't say they didn't have a fair opportunity to have it themselves.