Domainmonster Auto Renewals - Be careful you don't get stung

[mdb]

If you have domains with Domainmonster you might be interested in their renewals procedure which is geared around maximising their profits at your expense. Obviously you can't blame them for wanting to do that, they're in business to make a profit, but for customers here's something to bear in mind.

Before I rant I should point out that overall DM provide a good service and I've had domains with them for several years. They've also caught me a few goodens too.

1. Auto-renewals are set by default - fair enough

2. By default .uk domains are set to renew for ONE year, and based on their current fees this offers them more profit than a two year renewal, 250% more profit... As far as I can work out, on a 1 year renewal they profit £1.49 or roughly 43% of their buying price. On a 2 year renewal they profit £0.58 or roughly 12% - quite a difference... I think given the choice the vast majority of people would prefer the default to be set to a 2 year renewal as it offers way more value, although I'm sure they would argue the 1 year is cheaper.

3. Even though they send out reminders of the date when domains will renew, I still don't know how far out they choose to renew domains that are approaching expiration. There's no clear timescale mentioned in the renewals section and I couldn't see it in their T&Cs. I'm not saying it isn't buried in there somewhere, but I couldn't easily see it... My old registrar, albeit they charged slightly more than DM, renewed my domains on the date of expiration, for 2 years. Now, call me stupid but that sounds like a decent default customer-focused policy. There's no benefit to renewing a domain weeks in advance to the customer. The only benefit is to the registrar. Obviously you might want to drop domains, but if you do you'll need to make sure you cancel the default auto renew policy WEEKS in advance of the expiration date. So it's a trade off between having the benefit of your domains auto renewed and having domains you don't want to keep auto renew.

4. DM offers tiered pricing on their domains, but they don't apply this to auto renewals, why not?

Just to give you a clear indication on how 10 .uk domains will renew:

By DEFAULT:

10 x £4.99 + VAT = £59.88 (1 year only) - £14.90 profit for DM

If you do it the day before manually:

10 x £5.50 + VAT = £66.00 (2 years) - £5.00 profit for DM

Now don't get me wrong, companies exist to make a profit, but to me that feels like a bit of an orchestrated rip off; you can pay an extra 10% and you get twice the value.

I've turned off auto renewal on all my domains now, and there's no simple switch to apply that to all domains. You have the hassle of having to turn off auto renew for each domain. Based on the fact that I think they've deliberately made it difficult to know how far into the future they will renew your domains (save their email notifications, which is good, but could be a WHOLE lot better) I'm considering moving my lot to Daily. Incidently Daily clearly state they will auto renew expiring domains by default 2 weeks in advance. I was able to find that info within 30 seconds of looking on their website. I still think it's a tacky policy, but at least they're explicit about the timeframe.

I know many would say just buy a tag etc. but I can't justify the outlay, I don't own a 1000 domains.

Lesson learned.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for sharing your experience in such detail, I'm sure it will help members.

Admin

 

[RobM]

I find it appalling that domain registrars should make any profit at all.

 

[mdb]

I find it appalling that domain registrars should make any profit at all.

I think it's fair enough they make a profit, we're not all domainers, hence we're not all going to fork out what it costs to be able to register directly with Nominet.

What DM have done here though is just greedy, although you could argue that they've got great prices and provide a great service... just so long as you're 100% clear with their policies etc.

It's a real shame imo, I've always thought they were a great, fair play registrar. In fact I just moved a load of domains to them. They won't be there long though, sadly, I'll be consolidating elsewhere.

 

[Blossom]

1. Auto-renewals are set by default - fair enough

2. By default .uk domains are set to renew for ONE year, and based on their current fees this offers them more profit than a two year renewal, 250% more profit... As far as I can work out, on a 1 year renewal they profit £1.49 or roughly 43% of their buying price. On a 2 year renewal they profit £0.58 or roughly 12% - quite a difference... I think given the choice the vast majority of people would prefer the default to be set to a 2 year renewal as it offers way more value, although I'm sure they would argue the 1 year is cheaper.

These are both things that are impossible to win. For every customer who wants auto-renewals on by default, there's one who wants them off.

Same for one year vs. 2 year .uk renewals. You have half arguing that the 1 year .uk is a lower overall price to pay and a 2 year renewal involves them forking out more money right now so it should be 1 year by default, and half arguing that a 2 year renewal is better value for money overall so it's better as 2.

Then there's a whole set of secondary problems where people who've got used to it one way completely freak out if it's changed to be something else (especially if it's the opposite to how it was previously).

The safest way is to have auto-renewals, because it's a hell of a lot less damaging to pay an extra reg fee than it is to lose a domain altogether because they haven't noticed/email has gone to spam/address is never checked/cat died/they were travelling for a month etc. etc. etc.

3. Even though they send out reminders of the date when domains will renew, I still don't know how far out they choose to renew domains that are approaching expiration. There's no clear timescale mentioned in the renewals section and I couldn't see it in their T&Cs. I'm not saying it isn't buried in there somewhere, but I couldn't easily see it...

4. DM offers tiered pricing on their domains, but they don't apply this to auto renewals, why not?

Ask them?

I still think it's a tacky policy, but at least they're explicit about the timeframe.

If it's left to the last minute there's more chance of something going wrong and not being able to be resolved in time.

 

[RobM]

They won't be there long though, sadly, I'll be consolidating elsewhere.

Where? As has been seen on this forum time and time again - if you want to skimp on the amount you pay you'll get the 'customer service' it's worth.

 

[mdb]

These are both things that are impossible to win. For every customer who wants auto-renewals on by default, there's one who wants them off.

Yes, I agree. I've no issue with that.

Same for one year vs. 2 year .uk renewals.

I disagree. As I said in my initial post, I think the vast majority would want 2 years as a default renewal when you take it all into consideration. What would you rather have, £5.99 for one year as a default or £6.70 for two years. It's a no brainer if you ask me?

If a domain was initially registered for 1 year then I can see why the default renewal should be set to 1 year.

The safest way is to have auto-renewals...

I think that's dependent on the registrar's renewal policy. I wouldn't say it's "safe" for a registrar to decide when YOUR domains are renewed, but buyer beware, it's all in the small print.

Ask them?

Not bothered at this point, I don't feel compelled to keep my domains with them. Maybe someone from DM would care to comment?

If it's left to the last minute there's more chance of something going wrong and not being able to be resolved in time.

Mmmm that doesn't really hold up, although it's an argument I'm sure that's used. Ok, there might be a billing issue - an expired card etc. The tag holder has 90 days post expiration to reinstate the domain. I think DM even give you 16 days grace to renew manually after the expiration date if it didn't auto renew... If the registrant can't get his / her act together in that timeframe then they deserve to lose the domain imo.

DM could renew expiring domains on the date of expiration, a day before or a week before - just make it explicitly clear ON THE WEBSITE, not just in reminder emails.

 

[mdb]

Where? As has been seen on this forum time and time again - if you want to skimp on the amount you pay you'll get the 'customer service' it's worth.

Not sure yet, maybe Daily maybe back to Heart or 123 again. I know all registrars have their own issues though...

I think the thing that bugged me the most with this DM escapade, even though we're talking pence, is that you get the discounted tiered rate with a manual renewal and they don't apply it when it's set to auto-renew?

Incidently I've had loads of domains with 123 for a decade and I've never had any issues, although I'm aware many have. All in all, speaking personally, I would say that's where I've had my best overall registrar experience. I'm sure many would say the same of DM.

 

[js1]

Same thing happened to me, was charged a much higher percentage when they renewed some domains for one year.

Spoke to them and long and short I was told they don't make next to nothing on renewals for 2 years plus due the cheap price they charge, this just help make more revenue.

But would I move my domains there somewhere else, no way... The level of service in email, over the phone etc, etc, is worth every penny and more; for the costs they charge for any renewal.

!!!!!! Keep your domains there, leave them set to auto renewal, set the auto renewal to 2 years!!!!!!

 

[Blossom]

I disagree. As I said in my initial post, I think the vast majority would want 2 years as a default renewal when you take it all into consideration.

They don't. Trust me.

Not bothered at this point, I don't feel compelled to keep my domains with them. Maybe someone from DM would care to comment?

You were bothered enough to start the thread and lay out the figures.

If the registrant can't get his / her act together in that timeframe then they deserve to lose the domain imo.

That might be what you think, but it's not necessarily what the customer thinks.

DM could renew expiring domains on the date of expiration, a day before or a week before - just make it explicitly clear ON THE WEBSITE, not just in reminder emails.

If you want that, you could suggest it to them. They're only human, it could easily be an oversight.

 

[mdb]

!!!!!! Keep your domains there, leave them set to auto renewal, set the auto renewal to 2 years!!!!!!

If you've less than 10, fair enough, leave them to auto-renew. But why would you want to pay more to have them auto renew over manually renewing them? I know it's only pence, but it's principal... You're good enough to give them the business in the first place, why not just automatically apply the discounted rate?

I suppose you could leave it on as a fail safe and manually renew at least a month ahead of when they expire...

 

[mdb]

They don't. Trust me.

Nothing personal, but I don't. I've asked a few people in the last few days and they've agreed on the 2 years. Maybe we could have a poll. Maybe DM polled their customers and thought it was a good idea and I missed the email.

You were bothered enough to start the thread and lay out the figures.

Yes, I was bothered enough to give people the insight that they may not have had. Hopefully people who have domains with DM that weren't aware of the renewals process are more aware of it now.

That might be what you think, but it's not necessarily what the customer thinks.

? But, I am a customer ? Aside from the 1 vs 2 year issue, I still think that on balance the benefits are far more in the registrant's favour by renewing a customer's domains X days ahead of the expiration date. (I still don't know what X is and I've given up looking).

It could easily be an oversight.

Mmmm, I doubt it, but I'm a nice guy, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[js1]

If you've less than 10, fair enough, leave them to auto-renew. But why would you want to pay more to have them auto renew over manually renewing them? I know it's only pence, but it's principal... You're good enough to give them the business in the first place, why not just automatically apply the discounted rate?

I really don't see any problem if there all set to auto renew for 2 years, we're talking about a few pennies so it really does not matter at all.

I suppose you could leave it on as a fail safe and manually renew at least a month ahead of when they expire...

Even with your own nominet tag / membership you have to manage your domains, so by managing them in your nominet members area or in your domain monster area you have to keep an eye on things.

But I would take a step back and I understand your unhappy and it's hard to do but for me

1) the knowledge and expertise is second to none, even if was 10 x the price.

2) you get a great easy to use control pannel with full dns control, easy transfer in and out.

3) Great free email service.

I have my own nominet tag but still keep 100+ domains there for the above and out of loyalty for the great service they give and for the domains they have caught for me.

I hope you will have a step back + think about things...

P.s not trying to prove you wrong here mdb, just trying to help as I think you will find it hard / impossible to beat them.

Kind regards,

John.

 

[Blossom]

Nothing personal, but I don't. I've asked a few people in the last few days and they've agreed on the 2 years. Maybe we could have a poll. Maybe DM polled their customers and thought it was a good idea and I missed the email.

Haha, ok. You have a little domainer poll if you like. I'll stick with bigger sample-size industry figures.

? But, I am a customer ? Aside from the 1 vs 2 year issue, I still think that on balance the benefits are far more in the registrant's favour by renewing a customer's domains X days ahead of the expiration date. (I still don't know what X is and I've given up looking).

I'd recommend you do domain name and hosting support for a reasonably sized company for a couple of weeks. I think you'd see things very differently. People don't behave how you think they behave.

 

[mdb]

I really don't see any problem if there all set to auto renew for 2 years, we're talking about a few pennies so it really does not matter at all.

Yeah, that's fair enough, but I think for the sake of a few pennies it would be a goodwill gesture for them to offer the discounted rate, if nothing more than a "thanks" for your business, thanks for renewing at least 10 domains with us. It's like you've said, you're a loyal customer, you value their service, it's a shame those extra pennies couldn't reciprocate that loyalty.

I agree with everything you say, John. I think DM on the whole offer a great service, I said that at the beginning. Having said that I think their renewal process is lousy and doesn't anywhere compare with the rest of that great service. I appreciate margins are tight and domain registraring is fiercely competitive, but I fail to see how hitting current customers with almost 300% increase in their profit (by default) is a fair deal. It's just out of sink with the rest of their business practices imo.

The figures I've quoted speak for themself. Obviously I'm not going to quibble their business model, but the distance been the 2 figures is more than just an incremental increase.

If I paid 10% on any other service, even if it is discounted, I wouldn't get twice the value, be it web hosting, mobile phones, Sky, a car service, gym membership - you name it. I just think it's a tad greedy on their part.

I might move all my domains to another registrar and get stung in another way. Everything has its pros and cons

Would be genuinely interesting though to have a poll and get peoples' feedback on what they'd prefer to have as a default auto-renewal period - 1 year or 2.

I suppose at the end of the day every cheap service has to make up their margins elsewhere.

Anyway, you live and learn

 

[mdb]

Haha, ok. You have a little domainer poll if you like. I'll stick with bigger sample-size industry figures.

I'd recommend you do domain name and hosting support for a reasonably sized company for a couple of weeks. I think you'd see things very differently. People don't behave how you think they behave.

Ok, thanks for the advice. I really haven't got time to start a new company though right now, and I'm really not THAT bothered to find out whether people prefer 1 or 2 years for an auto-renewal period of their expired domain, but please feel free to post any data you've accrued. Would be interesting.

 

[js1]

I think the poll should be on will you get a better service for the same price else where?

I do understand your point on the difference in price between a 1 year auto renewal and a 2 year auto renewal if your an old customer and used to the old auto renewal and not the new as I was.

But for a new customer (who should look at the charges and manage them) or a customer that knows it's fine.

 

[Lovekraft]

Just went to manually renew a couple of .co.uk's with monmster and they are priced at £9.98 for the 2 years??!... that's a huge price increase from when i last renewed. Time to move elsewhere. again.

 

[stellar73]

Just went to manually renew a couple of .co.uk's with monmster and they are priced at £9.98 for the 2 years??!... that's a huge price increase from when i last renewed. Time to move elsewhere. again.

I'm still getting £6.70 for two years, doesn't look as if their prices have changed

 

[mat]

Domainmonster have a bug that is showing the incorrect price at checkout for .co.uk names at renewal. You will be invoiced the correct amount.

I have reached out to them and let them know.

By the way Blossom, your comments have nothing to do with working for Host Europe Group who own Domainmonster?