Grexit

humble pie · Jul 5, 2015

None of the options are great but a grexit has to be the best option for Greece - let them rebuild, restore some pride and come back stronger?

RobM · Jul 5, 2015

If you borrow 1,000,000 from a bank.... then can't pay it back.... then as a favour the bank says never mind about 900,000 of it just repay the 100,000 (10%) left.... then you decide 'no that's not fair we're being pushed around' and refuse.... all the time keeping the house.... what do you think would happen? It wouldn't be a case of 'restoring some pride'. None of us would be allowed to behave like Greece, let alone actually have people *supporting* us for it.

websaway · Jul 5, 2015

No good joining the club and then not adhering to the rules.
There does not seem to be any exceptional circumstances.
Other countries had to bite the bullet.
It is alarming though, given the problems in the Middle East and Ukraine.

RobM · Jul 5, 2015

Lets not forget also that this is a country that was paying out pensions to people who retired at the (then) retirement age of 57! They wanted money to pay these pensions. Germany gave them 56billion, France 42billion, Italy 37billion, plus about 111billion from rest of europe and IMF. They didn't change their spending habits and the money was either mismanaged or corruptly spent. It really boggles my mind to see people sticking up for them suggesting that they have a right. They brought it on themselves - I just hope Europe won't give them more money (a total waste). They are now claiming victory for the 'no' vote and in the other breath saying the EU has to give them money to open their banks next week. I know what I would say if I was Merkel - it'd be censored on this forum.

accelerator · Jul 5, 2015

I think the more local government is, the better. Therefore, if the no vote leads to Grexit, it will be better for their country. A short sharp shock will occur followed by restoration, rather than years of draw out economic problems.

martin-s · Jul 6, 2015

I'm your typical conservative, yet I find myself agreeing with the "no" voters on this. The problem with their debt is that they cannot realistically hope to pay it back.

The only sensible solution is a real debt haircut, but Europe aren't offering that.

Remind me again the causes of World War one?

Good read: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-should-forgive-and-restructure-the-debt.html

RobM · Jul 6, 2015

Martin they've already been given a massive haircut - in fact they are now at a blade one! Think of how the 240billionish they squandered could've been better used by all the other nations who would in fact be better off just by not giving it to them.
They asked for the money, they didn't/couldn't pay it back, they don't want to try. It really is that simple. The problem is Europe still stupidly is trying to cling on to getting anything back. Personally I would cut my losses, remove Greece, and concentrate on the others who don't cost so much with no input.

humble pie · Jul 6, 2015

How much pro EU propaganda can the BBC spill out, you would think they would have learned their lesson from this GE when they promoted labour, the tax payer has had enough socialist brainwashing and will soon start to ask for the end of the BBC, balanced and impartial they are not.

Never learn their lesson as it's run by champaigne socialists who think they know better than you, this coverage of Greece just proves it.

BeachLife · Jul 6, 2015

They were basically forced to take the bailout in 2010, 90% of which was used to prop up ailing banks in restructuring debt. Since then measures forced on them have shrunk the economy by 25%, reduced real wages by 33%, pensions by 40% with almost a third of the population are living below the poverty line. They did what they were told and it hasn't worked. Half of all under 25s are unemployed, rates of homelessness and suicide are rocketing. How would any of us deal with such a problem, on an individual level?

They should have been allowed to default in 2010, and should be allowed to now. The IMF report this week confirms that the debt is unsustainable for Greece (Germany has defaulted on its debt 4 times in the last century).

Lastly, if we boot Greece out of the Eurozone then we effectively have a failed state on the borders of Europe, with all that is going on in the Middle East and North Africa, is that good for anyone? Never mind the consequences to the remainder of the Eurozone.

Keep them in the zone and let them default on the debt, IMHO.

gimpydog · Jul 6, 2015

BeachLife said:
The IMF report this week confirms that the debt is unsustainable for Greece

Hmmm..new week - new report. Christine Lagarde should remember she's a civil servant now, not a politician.

BTW, it took us 100 years (2015) to repay our WW1 debt & 60 years (2006) to pay for WW2.

Give them time to pay, by all means, but don't let them off the hook.

martin-s · Jul 6, 2015

RobM said:
Martin they've already been given a massive haircut - in fact they are now at a blade one! Think of how the 240billionish they squandered could've been better used by all the other nations who would in fact be better off just by not giving it to them.
They asked for the money, they didn't/couldn't pay it back, they don't want to try. It really is that simple. The problem is Europe still stupidly is trying to cling on to getting anything back. Personally I would cut my losses, remove Greece, and concentrate on the others who don't cost so much with no input.

How accurate is this view? They used the bailout to prop up Greek banks for the benefit of other European banks is how I understand it. If you see what the everyday Greek has lost since then, it's pretty extreme.

accelerator · Jul 6, 2015

martin-s said:
How accurate is this view? They used the bailout to prop up Greek banks for the benefit of other European banks is how I understand it. If you see what the everyday Greek has lost since then, it's pretty extreme.

Exactly. As usual, bailouts are like social security for bankers, and they just use the money to survive their failures at assessing risk, leaving the general population to suffer.

websaway · Jul 6, 2015

There is no painless way out. How do they build international confidence in their ability to control their economy.
Some of our people would have us in the same predicament had they had their way, it opens the door to anarchy.
It's one thing arguing about how the cake is shared but you have to ensure that there is a cake to share.

We are in a way fortunate to have had bad times in the seventies and early eighties, It's taught us a lesson and so to avoid the worst of options.