Not all FREE transfers under new contract

[Stephen]

Posted on nominet forum

.... Self Managed Tag holders will just be charged a zero rate fee for transfers of domain names in their own name, using the existing registrant transfer tool. Domain names on a Self Managed Tag in a third party’s name will be subject to the usual £10 plus VAT fee, and the transfer will need to be initiated or authorised by the named registrant, as is currently the case......
Phil.

I did not see that in the small print, I thought as managed TAG all transfers would be free.

Often when selling a domain it is transferred to new registrant but kept on TAG until they can find who they want to transfer to, when they have looked at hosting options.

As numbers of third party names at any point in time is limited, all transfers should be free same as main registrars.

If you object to this suggest email [email protected] with your comments as consultation is still open.

 

[tifosi]

Aren't you getting transfer and release a bit mixed up here?

If the domain is in your name and on your tag then it will be free to transfer (and release as it's part of the process)?

If it's in a clients name but your tag then you're simply releasing the domain to them via epp or the automaton which is a free process anyway.

If it's in a clients name AND you need to change the registrant then it will be charged, but in reality for self-managed tags just how often I that going to happen?

 

[grantw]

I don't see the issue with this, on the very few occasions it may occur you would just release the domain to the new TAG on behalf of the new owner once they know where it's going.

How often do you sell a domain, the buyer leaves it on your TAG and then the buyer sells it to someone else and initiates a registrant transfer??

Grant

 

[martin-s]

Transfer fees should be scrapped for all tags - it's crazy that they still exist now it's so automated.

 

[Edwin]

Yes, two things going on in one short paragraph I think. I read it as follows:

Transfers (i.e. legal change of ownership) are free for self managed tag holders' own domains (i.e. you can transfer TO somebody else free of charge)

However, if you keep the domain name on your tag, then the new owner will have to pay for a transfer (i.e. a second legal change of ownership) to another party.

Retags can be done for free at any time via the web interface and don't come into it at all.

So both the following self managed scenarios are free:
A) Transfer to a third party and retag as part of the transfer
B) Transfer to a third party, retag later

Whereas this is paid
A) Transfer to a third party, keep domain on original tag
B) Third party transfers to a different third party (while the domain remains on original tag)

Looks completely fair enough. Anything else would be a way around the whole "self managed" concept as from a third party's point of view, they aren't the self managed party contracting with Nominet.

 

[Stephen]

who pays the £12

Yes, two things going on in one short paragraph I think. I read it as follows:

Transfers (i.e. legal change of ownership) are free for self managed tag holders' own domains (i.e. you can transfer TO somebody else free of charge)

....

So if I buy a domain from somebody and transfer to my TAG, I have to pay £12 to Nominet still.

If I sell a domain on my TAG to somebody else and they want to transfer ownership and change TAG at same time, they have to pay £12?

I would rather they scrap the £12 for everybody.

It seems it is only being brought in for large registrars, for when they transfer to their ownership domains that were previously owned by the client for FREE (currently £12), they then have a free window to decide to sell or park for 60 days before it is cancelled.

 

[grantw]

So if I buy a domain from somebody and transfer to my TAG, I have to pay £12 to Nominet still.

If I sell a domain on my TAG to somebody else and they want to transfer ownership and change TAG at same time, they have to pay £12?

No and no.

There is only a fee to pay if a domain is held on a self managed tag which is not registered to the TAG owner and a full registrant transfer is performed on it.

Grant

 

[martin-s]

My tag won't be self managed, but it won't be the top level one either. All of my domains will still attract a transfer charge as I understand it?

 

[Edwin]

My tag won't be self managed, but it won't be the top level one either. All of my domains will still attract a transfer charge as I understand it?

Correct. Self managed and top tier transfers are free, middle tier is as per usual.

 

[diablo]

At present is it possible for a Registrar to change the Registrant without the Registrant's consent and free of charge (presumably by editing the Registrant's details)? Or do all transfers have to go through the Nominet £12 transfer process?

 

[grantw]

At present is it possible for a Registrar to change the Registrant without the Registrant's consent and free of charge (presumably by editing the Registrant's details)? Or do all transfers have to go through the Nominet £12 transfer process?

It has to go through Nominet. The registrant field can't be modified by registrars.

Grant

 

[Edwin]

It has to go through Nominet. The registrant field can't be modified by registrars.

But what some of them apparently do is modify the Admin email and then take both sides of the transfer. That's how expiring domains end up in registrar portfolios pre-deletion, if I've understood the process correctly.

 

[grantw]

But what some of them apparently do is modify the Admin email and then take both sides of the transfer. That's how expiring domains end up in registrar portfolios pre-deletion, if I've understood the process correctly.

That does happen yes, but not free obviously.

Grant

 

[diablo]

It has to go through Nominet. The registrant field can't be modified by registrars.

Grant

Exactly as I thought.

But what some of them apparently do is modify the Admin email and then take both sides of the transfer. That's how expiring domains end up in registrar portfolios pre-deletion, if I've understood the process correctly.

This I think is wrong* because the Registrant's permission should be part of the transfer process.

*wrong in the sense of unprofessional, not that Edwin is wrong!

 

[grantw]

This I think is wrong* because the Registrant's permission should be part of the transfer process

You have to tick a box stating that you are authorised to transfer the domain. I've said it from day one, at the very least Nominet should have been sending a notification email to the original admin email address if it is changed.

Grant

 

[diablo]

You have to tick a box stating that you are authorised to transfer the domain. I've said it from day one, at the very least Nominet should have been sending a notification email to the original admin email address if it is changed.

Grant

Agreed - because it is open to abuse if allowed as is.

Another thing that concerns me at the moment is Registrars who register domains in their name, not the client's. Who then gets the .uk?

 

[Edwin]

Another thing that concerns me at the moment is Registrars who register domains in their name, not the client's. Who then gets the .uk?

It's the legal owner i.e., in your example, the Registrar. And that's how it should be - Nominet literally can't see inside the "black box" that is each client's contractual relationship with their registrar, web developer, hosting firm, marketing agency or whichever third party might or might not have control of the domain name on their client's behalf.

 

[diablo]

It's the legal owner i.e., in your example, the Registrar. And that's how it should be - Nominet literally can't see inside the "black box" that is each client's contractual relationship with their registrar, web developer, hosting firm, marketing agency or whichever third party might or might not have control of the domain name on their client's behalf.

The Registrar isn't the legal owner though. This is what Nominet says:

"A small number of Registrars routinely register domain names in their own name without the knowledge or permission of their customer. This breaks the terms of the contract, because it can cause major problems for the intended Registrant. If you receive a request to register a .uk domain name for a customer you must register the domain name in your customer's name. You may only register the domain name in your or your organisation's name with the explicit prior consent of your customer. We might ask you to prove it, so you will probably want the customer's consent in writing to help if there is a query."

In the above, Nominet acknowledges the "intended Registrant". Where explicit prior consent is given by the customer it can be done, but again Nominet is acknowledging the rights of the customer, the intended Registrant.

 

[tifosi]

Yes, wrong on that one Edwin. Nominet have been very clear on this for a long time. Caused issues over 10yrs ago when a registrar went awol and left a lot of very confused and angry registrants.

Their current registrant clean up will no doubt sort any left overs.

 

[Edwin]

I know all about that clause. But it's a second stage "cleanup" that you have to essentially hope for if you're an affected business. The bottom line is that the "Registrant" has control of the domain - so if the Registrant is the registrar, hosting firm, seo company etc. not the end user client, you're essentially left with:
A) Going to Nominet to try and get them to do something about any problems
B) Keeping your fingers crossed that nothing will go wrong in the relationship
C) Take the company controlling the domain to court

Hopefully Nominet will start to get a lot stricter on this sort of practice with the new Registrar agreement, although that still won't protect end users when the "guilty party" aren't themselves a registrar, but a different type of entity (e.g. marketing consultancy, web design firm etc.) where the Registrar themselves aren't party to the issue at all.