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Wanted: Service Quote (Only a possibility)

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Hello,

I'm looking for a quote, determining how much it would cost to hire a professional to build a website, similar to google, with inter linking search results between, for example, images & search, and how much it would cost in terms of servers to index a relevant proportion of the web & be able to stay online 24/7.
(quote for 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, 1 million visitors a day would be nice)

I'm thinking its probably in around £2,000 for the site creation and help setting up / maintaining servers (and bot creation for indexing...), but I'm really not sure on what I'd need in terms of servers, etc. Obviously premises would be needed, but that can come on a separate quote.
 
I wish acorn still had the like button ;-)

You may need more than a couple of grand to take on the big G
 
Just no, look a little bit into google infrastructure and you will see this just isn't possible anymore. Many years ago, yes. However, not now.

To back up my words with a little example: Google hire the world best to optimize its data, they use bespoke operating systems, bespoke datacentres, bespoke hardware and more.
 
I don't intend to take on the big G, luckily - not directly, in a different form.

I'm looking at a sort of search engine, with a twist, and the basic model is that this "twisted search engine" is a ad-free results page version of google. How do I make my profit? Sites pay to be featured on the results page & voters choose what position they come, by voting sites up & down... un-featured sites would also be able to be voted up.

You search for a word (eg: car), and you get results in the way that you can
check out the top comparison websites chosen by voters & featuring a like (each keyword would have a amount to feature, and featuring would simply add you to the list for 3 months, and be around £10-£200, but rising way higher. The main part is the voting though, so quality results that visitors want to get, they can get. I'm really interested in the idea because I think this "twist", is different because its better for the consumer because its advert free, and when they use it of choice, they get what it says on the tin: comparison sites. Google, on the other hand, delivers retailers, blogs, comparison sites, etc - if the user just wants to compare laptops, they can do it and have access immediately to the "best" laptop comparison site available - I'd use it if I wanted to compare something, and the ad-free is just an extra incentive. I have a reasonable ability to invest, but I have very little knowledge in this area (I have many affiliate sites doing me justice, but alas I have never entered the world of databases and fancy scripts like this before),
so I'd love to here what you guys think would be reasonable and what you would quote costs at.

I know I'd be looking at serious advertising (I'm looking in the region of £50,000 to £60,000, depending on the initial investments returns in the way of sticky visitors, feedback, whether things look profitable, etc), but I also think if this site hit up lots of visits, from the advantages to the consumer mentioned, MANY sites, affiliation sites mainly, would be interested.

I'd love to know all your thoughts, hate, love, and maybe any quotes.
 
Alright got a bit more time so I will go into a bit more detail:

I'm looking for a quote, determining how much it would cost to hire a professional to build a website, similar to google, with inter linking search results between, for example, images & search, and how much it would cost in terms of servers to index a relevant proportion of the web & be able to stay online 24/7. (quote for 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, 1 million visitors a day would be nice)

Regarding costs for something something like this - It's all down to how well you want to do it... invest too little and you have a poor product, invest too much and you've blown your budget that you need for marketing.

To make the front end well you would want it ajax like googles own, you could use jquery and cut a few corners. Obviously for google every byte counts and I guess you could do it on a basic basis to begin with.

With the back end you would need a good database system but its likely you could do it with mysql or similar. Twitter have actually provided a lot of information about how their databases work. I think they even gave out their full system details which would be hugely useful for an engineer.

Obviously the more sites you crawl, the more storage and servers you need. As for your spider, this isn't my area but I imagine it would cost a fair bit for a developer to do.

I think you could sort of 'bootstrap' this with the amount you have specified, but it just seems a bit too much, especially when you don't have experience in this area.

I'm looking at a sort of search engine, with a twist, and the basic model is that this "twisted search engine" is a ad-free results page version of google. How do I make my profit? Sites pay to be featured on the results page & voters choose what position they come, by voting sites up & down... un-featured sites would also be able to be voted up.

Why would someone pay to be featured if un-featured sites can be voted on too? Unless the feature gives them more exposure so they can get more votes... However this would be close to pay for results and could be seen very badly.

The main part is the voting though, so quality results that visitors want to get, they can get.

So how do you stop black hats manipulating the votes by using proxies and automation software?

I think I understand what you're saying - It searches comparison sites so people can find the best comparison site for the product, and it uses user feedback to position the sites.

However, why would someone choose you instead of using google product search, or visiting kelkoo or similar?

I have a reasonable ability to invest, but I have very little knowledge in this area (I have many affiliate sites doing me justice, but alas I have never entered the world of databases and fancy scripts like this before),

Clearly you do and I commend you for having this much to potentially invest, however I would seriously advise you to stick to what you know.


About 2 years ago I was hired by a firm who had fucked up hugely with their project. Not just a little bit... hugely. They had taken investment from friends and family of over £500,000 and created a website with little knowledge about web design.

They build it in ASP, it was ugly, it didn't function properly, it wasn't popular and it sunk.

In the end they lost their friends money, they lost their investors who had trusted them money and they lost their other business too.

The reason that they crashed is they didn't take good advice, they threw money into it without solid direction and without the knowledge they needed.

I would recommend you starting on something small but similar to get a feel for this kind of project.

Perhaps your own comparison site which crawls the web for good prices on something specific?
 
Think of your £2k in time units.

How long do you expect to work in order to earn £2k? 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month?

Do you think your idea could be built in that period of time?

If you want a developer at the click of your fingers, then you need a contractor. Daily rates £250-£500.

Your budget won't last long.
 
Alright got a bit more time so I will go into a bit more detail:



Regarding costs for something something like this - It's all down to how well you want to do it... invest too little and you have a poor product, invest too much and you've blown your budget that you need for marketing.

To make the front end well you would want it ajax like googles own, you could use jquery and cut a few corners. Obviously for google every byte counts and I guess you could do it on a basic basis to begin with.

With the back end you would need a good database system but its likely you could do it with mysql or similar. Twitter have actually provided a lot of information about how their databases work. I think they even gave out their full system details which would be hugely useful for an engineer.

Obviously the more sites you crawl, the more storage and servers you need. As for your spider, this isn't my area but I imagine it would cost a fair bit for a developer to do.

I think you could sort of 'bootstrap' this with the amount you have specified, but it just seems a bit too much, especially when you don't have experience in this area.



Why would someone pay to be featured if un-featured sites can be voted on too? Unless the feature gives them more exposure so they can get more votes... However this would be close to pay for results and could be seen very badly.



So how do you stop black hats manipulating the votes by using proxies and automation software?

I think I understand what you're saying - It searches comparison sites so people can find the best comparison site for the product, and it uses user feedback to position the sites.

However, why would someone choose you instead of using google product search, or visiting kelkoo or similar?



Clearly you do and I commend you for having this much to potentially invest, however I would seriously advise you to stick to what you know.


About 2 years ago I was hired by a firm who had fucked up hugely with their project. Not just a little bit... hugely. They had taken investment from friends and family of over £500,000 and created a website with little knowledge about web design.

They build it in ASP, it was ugly, it didn't function properly, it wasn't popular and it sunk.

In the end they lost their friends money, they lost their investors who had trusted them money and they lost their other business too.

The reason that they crashed is they didn't take good advice, they threw money into it without solid direction and without the knowledge they needed.

I would recommend you starting on something small but similar to get a feel for this kind of project.

Perhaps your own comparison site which crawls the web for good prices on something specific?

First of all, thanks for all the detail.

"Why would someone pay to be featured if un-featured sites can be voted on too? Unless the feature gives them more exposure so they can get more votes... However this would be close to pay for results and could be seen very badly."

This is a valid point that I'd thought about before hand; to expand on what I'm saying: the featured sites are always "better then adverts", and probably going to be better then a retailer site - criteria would be a comparison-based site, so they'd be practically the same thing as the un-featured search results. Secondly, all searchs start at 0. When featured, you go straight to the top - but if a user clicks on second and "likes" it, then you go to second. the idea is, featured sites get more exposure to both liking and visits through entering the top few pages. Featured sites fit into the search at a ratio of around 1/3, or so, and get shown for votes. The only main difference between featured & un-featured is that featured sites have more exposure to visits, but have to pay for this. There should be no dislike for featured sites, because each would be individually checked to make sure its as good as the rest of the results - a comparison site - so really, all featuring does is get visits (targetted!) for a comparison site, and doesn't really effect the viewer. I have made a (very quick) image:

2jb60xu.png


Features like, for example, the page total, and the blue text, would mainly be inserted if the site was a success.

"So how do you stop black hats manipulating the votes by using proxies and automation software?"

You need to be logged in, and can't vote more then twice (on two different sites), per user-account, neither can you vote more then 5 times per hour.
To sign up you need to fill in a capt, but again, this login system wouldn't be in place till the site became popular enough for the featured feature - it doesn't really need it before hand, and, if the voting system was applied to results, it wouldn't matter if they were spammed - they don't earn any money, and it would hardly effect the web master / be worth doing if it was unprofitable to feature your site.

"However, why would someone choose you instead of using google product search, or visiting kelkoo or similar? "

Why do people use affiliate link based comparison sites?
because these offer reviews, and most importantly, comparisons between products. You go to a affiliate-link based comparison site, you get a page or three, prices, indepth study - you look at product description on google product search, you will never get comparisons, or more then 5 sentence long descriptions. For this reason, people like comparison sites - thats why it'd be great for them to have a trusty hub to find them with. I think its a market gap.

I understand your comments about only really being able to "bootstrap" - but with nothing else to compete with, bootstrapping is enough until revenue is a possibility.

In similarity, I can see the situation to do with this firm - However, my initial stake here does seem to be fairly low, and, though losing £x,xxx, is a lot, I do think its worth the risk, especially if marketted right. For example, if you want to compare ... light bulbs ... which page would you rather be confronted with:
10 sites with light bulbs for sale, with no comparisons, no real security, nothing really detailed, and 3 or so adverts - or - 10 sites which compare light bulbs, which give you price comparisons, value for money, what costumers think, maybe even talks about energy-saving light bulbs in comparison, etc, etc... I'd pick the latter.

I will consider and post my thoughts and the site if it ever goes live - thanks to you all.
 
Think of your £2k in time units.

How long do you expect to work in order to earn £2k? 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month?

Do you think your idea could be built in that period of time?

If you want a developer at the click of your fingers, then you need a contractor. Daily rates £250-£500.

Your budget won't last long.

Thanks for the info. I was indeed looking into a contractor, but I do feel its a fairly simple job at "stripped down", or "boot-strapped" version. Should it get successful and look profitable, of course more investment is needed, but in this case, I'd hope more income would also be the result :)
 
You're going to need way more than £2k.

Millions if you're intending to tackle a lot of niches and if it takes off in terms of traffic.

Unless you're planning on keeping it a small project, you'll need investors on board and I don't think they'll like the idea of the 'ad-free' part.

Why do you think Digg never expanded into the search market?
 
With respect you can't ask anyone to quote against visitor numbers, if you want a professional site like this you have to state your investment, that determines the level of technology used.
 
You're going to need way more than £2k.

Millions if you're intending to tackle a lot of niches and if it takes off in terms of traffic.

Unless you're planning on keeping it a small project, you'll need investors on board and I don't think they'll like the idea of the 'ad-free' part.

Why do you think Digg never expanded into the search market?


hello, and thanks for your thoughts - Digg? I think did never expanded into that market because of the reason I wouldn't expand directly into the search market - it would require major advertising, etc, and, as you rightly say, unwilling investors. However, this isn't a search engine... yes it searchs sites... but comparison sites... not every old blog on the internet ... the idea is that, it can turn out direct results that, say google, doesn't give your average joe shopper, who wants a comparison, price, value for money, quality, what users think, etc. Yeah, its definitely a smaller project for now, if visitors get sticky with the site, depending on a number of calculations, the idea could be proceeded with. I am cautious and do not want to invest more then £4,000 before seeing any "great" results, and I am under the impression this may be a possibility at this amount.
 
With respect you can't ask anyone to quote against visitor numbers, if you want a professional site like this you have to state your investment, that determines the level of technology used.

I'm looking into (for now) hiring a ajax contrator to build the site & help with setting up the hosting, which would be a dedicated server from a company, and, if the site exceeded expectations after the first £500 or so of advertising money is used, then the idea would be to add the feature idea, which me & my busisness partner have indeed revamped to be a "seal of approval" - for the search term (improve listing rank for being verified for that search term, on top of voting).
 
hello, and thanks for your thoughts - Digg? I think did never expanded into that market because of the reason I wouldn't expand directly into the search market - it would require major advertising, etc, and, as you rightly say, unwilling investors. However, this isn't a search engine... yes it searchs sites... but comparison sites... not every old blog on the internet ... the idea is that, it can turn out direct results that, say google, doesn't give your average joe shopper, who wants a comparison, price, value for money, quality, what users think, etc. Yeah, its definitely a smaller project for now, if visitors get sticky with the site, depending on a number of calculations, the idea could be proceeded with. I am cautious and do not want to invest more then £4,000 before seeing any "great" results, and I am under the impression this may be a possibility at this amount.

So it's basically http://www.hotukdeals.com/ ?
 

Yes & no...

I'm not thinking of listing comparisons from my site on the site... I'm thinking of listing websites where you can get comparisons. Behind it all, the money earner is the 3-month slot in the search results as being "promoted", therefore gaining more visitors. I won't be using any affiliate links - It'll be basically, sites pay to be in the search results, and, much like google adwords, quality scores over price paid, so quality of the site can change where its "featured" on the search results page, but the idea is that featuring can boost sales. Exact searchs, and a few other factors would loosely determine cost to get you site "featured", but with other sites featured, the amount it costs obviously goes up to be higher on the list. I'm looking also at a different version whereby 30 "Approved!" results slots are available, and to get into these "Approved!" results, you have to bid for the next-dropping slot of the 30 (they expire after 3 months...), with other bidders, and site quality, etc, will determine successor. Obviously, more visitors = more profit for the sites being "approved" = ground price to feature would go up.
 
So for example, I would search credit cards and money supermarket, compareandsave and uswitch might come up?
 
Why not speak to a company like Majestic that already crawl the Internet and see if you can make a deal to use their data, including scoring logic, as well as your own criteria built into it? Easier than setting up your own crawlers and Much cheaper. And if it turns out to be a good product, they may helpful push it.

I know the guys, happy to do an intro.
 
Why not skip the other sites and make your own comparison site using bought data or crawl, then use user reviews and pay people to review stuff. Make a community out of it.
 
Why not speak to a company like Majestic that already crawl the Internet and see if you can make a deal to use their data, including scoring logic, as well as your own criteria built into it? Easier than setting up your own crawlers and Much cheaper. And if it turns out to be a good product, they may helpful push it.

I know the guys, happy to do an intro.

Thanks much for the input & offer.
I like that idea, but I also think that navigating the data into a search engine, and making sure its relevant (comparison-site only), would be fairly hard, whereas, searching the web for relevant websites and adding them manually or when submitted to the search engine could work firstly with less data (=less cost), and also much more targeted sites on the search result pages. (=and therefore more relevant results), and would also give complete control over results (not that I think Majestic would say, higher prices dramatically to suite a success, but, that these results would, by business common sense, cost more then results collected naturally). Obviously your pros with Majestic are the ability to use scoring logic, and work with them to add criteria could make setting up and running such a site a lot easier. I'm really weighing through the options at the moment. If possible, can I please get back to you on this idea at a later date?
 
Why not skip the other sites and make your own comparison site using bought data or crawl, then use user reviews and pay people to review stuff. Make a community out of it.

That would need a lot of advertising & users to start reviewing. I like the idea of pay to review, but getting these things of the ground takes a lot of work. A few years back I thought about registering "www.makeitrated.com", and "www.ratedcollection.com", but in the end, after researching a little, it didn't look worthy of starting a website(set). The idea of paying people to review is pretty cool ( you'd attach your aff. link to there review, I'm guessing ), but the problem is getting people to actually use it without having to pay out sums & sums just for the reviews, disregarding advertising. And generally, from my experience, content written by people for a static amount is of less quality then say a affiliate link article (they really want you to click it & know how much you can make if you do...). There is also versions of the above around - so its not at all a empty market or even low market. I don't think you could focus people into using such a tool often or keep visitors using it unless your content was superior to other copies of the myriad of sites google turns up with comparisons on, and I think to get that content, well, the only effective way is to do what google does: find others content to link through to.
 
So for example, I would search credit cards and money supermarket, compareandsave and uswitch might come up?


Credit cards is a hard thing because its not necessarily a product - most comparisons are on products - yes, so to speak, some of those results would come up. Lets take the first page of google.co.uk for "Credit card":
2dir0gy.png

Yellow indicates would show up in search results, red indicates wouldn't - so your pretty much spot on. The "advice" (I will call it advice since this is kind of advice for a service mixed with a product comparison) sites have the holding, since these sites are the sites with the details someone looking for comparisons would want. Sites like these DO advertise - one of the advertisements is in yellow - and mbna is also advertising (on the right, though I cut that off), which obviously shows these sites are in for some wonga. I can estimate a fair number of people on acorndomains.co.uk most run affiliate-based sites around product comparisons, details, or etc, and I reckon those guys would love drenches of targeted costumers - and would be willing to pay fairly high for that.
 
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