UK2 !!??

[pfglee]

Someone who is selling me a web site is trying to get their domain name re-tagged away from UK2. This is proving to be an almost impossible task.

First of all they are demanding a fee to release the TAG - something I have never come across before. Still the fee isn't the problem - that has been paid. Still they seem incapable or unwilling to of make the TAG change.

Anyone had any experience of dealing with UK2?
Any good contact info other than the standard info provided on the site.

Do Nomient actually ever take sanctions against a member who refuses to release a TAG or at least delays it unnecesarily - this has been going on for nearly a fortnight already.

Any thoughts/feedback welcomed.

 

[FC Domains]

UK2 wonderful company. I've got a dedicated server hosted by them.
It's cheap, reliable and you get loads of bandwidth.

However, if anything ever goes wrong, you are doomed. They have no customer support worth mentioning. Trying to contact them is impossible.

Just apply to Nominet, to have the TAG moved and pay your £15.

 

[pfglee]

Thanks for the reply.

The person in question has contacted Nominet - they have told him it may take up to 30 day to change a TAG - what??

What is up with the UK - we can push .coms around in seconds - everything in the UK takes days or weeks.

Do Nominet ever take sanctions against their members - this sort of thing is intolerable and breaks Nominet's own rules.

 

[devolution]

This will help you!

http://amail.co.uk/moveaway.htm

 

[Ellis]

Just found this quote on UK2's customer testimonials page

"I like to clean hotel. Email helps me find hotels to clean. UK2 is very good email. I come to clean hotel. I clean Uk2 ? yes?. Please let me know." - Ismail Rafiq

Nice

 

[Whois-Search]

email Sam at [email protected]

 

[Ellis]

Why? Does he need a cleaner?

 

[lesurf]

Same problem for me with UK2. Very risky but I let one of my names I had with them just expire and then I re-regged it with someone who doesn't charge for anything other than registration. I didn't try the moveaway link but I must admit they do have a good Control Panel which lets you change registrant details online.

 

[scooter]

Someone who is selling me a web site is trying to get their domain name re-tagged away from UK2. This is proving to be an almost impossible task.

First of all they are demanding a fee to release the TAG - something I have never come across before. Still the fee isn't the problem - that has been paid. Still they seem incapable or unwilling to of make the TAG change.

Anyone had any experience of dealing with UK2?
Any good contact info other than the standard info provided on the site.

Do Nomient actually ever take sanctions against a member who refuses to release a TAG or at least delays it unnecesarily - this has been going on for nearly a fortnight already.

Any thoughts/feedback welcomed.

Hello pfglee,
I have transferred plenty of names from UK2net to new owners and not had a problem. I have never been charged a fee to move to another TAG by them.

If it is a .co.uk name:
You just have to make sure you have access to a fax machine.

Go here:
http://amail.co.uk/moveaway.htm

When you fill in the new TAG name on the link above, you are then taken to a page that gives you a fax number. Send them confirmation immediately via fax (make sure it has the current owners name and address in the fax header) and it's moved within the hour.

If you want to move a .net, .com or .org that's through them and resides with Joker.com, it's easy as well (as long as you still have access to the same email address you originally used to purchase with). Just bypass UK2NET completely, and go to joker.com, fire in your email address and they will send you a new password and off you go. The rest is easy.

.

 

[Jac]

The person in question has contacted Nominet - they have told him it may take up to 30 day to change a TAG - what??

I think someone has misunderstood. Nominet usually do tag transfer requests within a couple of days (possibly 3). You can start a tag transfer online here.

What is up with the UK - we can push .coms around in seconds - everything in the UK takes days or weeks.

Nominet likes to try and keep things as secure as possible for UK registrants. The same cannot be said for .com registrars. Easier or quicker doesn't equal more secure.

Do Nominet ever take sanctions against their members - this sort of thing is intolerable and breaks Nominet's own rules.

Clause 1.8 of the Tag Holder Agreement states: "If the Registrant wishes to use an alternative Tag Holder, and requests the Tag Holder to change the Tag associated with a domain name, the Tag Holder must not delay such a change".

Please note, Nominet does not currently define "delay" in terms of time. Various Tag Holder business models may do a tag transfer instantaneously or within hours. Some may do a more thorough security check which can take a few days but 2 weeks seems inordinate.

NB: Tag Holders have a responsibility to ensure the tag transfer request is not bogus and the person requesting it is actually the legal registrant.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[texidriver]

Nominet likes to try and keep things as secure as possible for UK registrants. The same cannot be said for .com registrars. Easier or quicker doesn't equal more secure.

Regards
James Conaghan

Did Nominet ever ask us if we wanted "more secure" ie;

Harder or slower and expensive (show me your Passport !)

or would we prefer..Easier or quicker and FREE ?

 

[Jac]

There's no such thing as FREE.

Did Nominet ever ask us if we wanted "more secure" ie;

Harder or slower and expensive (show me your Passport !)

or would we prefer..Easier or quicker and FREE ?

With reference to your first point; Nominet is obliged to ensure the security of registrants and their domain names. If they didn't, there are many stakeholders (including government agencies) who would be asking why they don't. With reference to FREE; when companies say FREE they actually mean they have costed it in. No company can do anything for FREE and survive to be of service to their customers a year or so down the line. FREE does not exist in a cost intensive internet world. Infrastructure costs money.

Nominet is a not-for-profit company and works on a cost recovery basis; it makes no secret of this. In its Customer Charter Nominet states: "We are a not-for-profit organisation and accordingly our fees reflect the cost of the work we do. We review our fees regularly to ensure that they are set at a cost-recovery level."

There are two issues. Cost recovery on Tag Transfers and Cost Recovery on Domain name (registrant) transfers. I'd like to take the opportunity to address both because Cost Recovery is being questioned. Cost recovery on TAG Transfers has been assessed at £15.00 plus Vat. Cost recovery on domain transfers has been assessed at £30.00 plus vat and it applies non-discriminately across the board.

By way of comparison (on domain name transfers), Verisign is a commercial 'for profit' registry and the cost of domain name transfers is 'costed in' to the base price of a .com domain (which will probably increase twice or three times over the next 7 years thanks to ICANN). So when one says a .com domain name transfer is FREE, what they really mean is that Verisign has costed it in. Personally, I find the ability to change a .com registrant name so easily to be fraught with danger, and simply not secure enough. (By the by, there are still Top Level Registrars who charge for transfers.)

However, back to Nominet....

The number of domain name transfers requested each month is somewhere in the region of 2,700 out of a total of 5,085,864 registrations. 2,700 equates to 0.053% of the total. Whilst I understand that those who transfer more than one domain name per month may feel aggrieved by the 30 quid charge, the question that needs to be addressed is this. Should the other 99.947% of registrants pay for the 0.053% who do the transfers?

Incidentally, most Tag Transfers are completed via the Tag Holder without problem. It is only if you are having a problem (and your Tag Holder won't cooperate) that you have a Tag Transfer of last resort via Nominet but it costs £15.00 plus Vat on a cost-recovery basis.

That's one of the benefits of cost-recovery; only those who wish to use a particular process get charged for it. This protects the interests of the majority of registrants who never transfer a domain names throughout its natural life.

In an ideal world I would also prefer 'easier and free' but then I'd be disadvantaging the majority of registrants who never use the Tag or Domain Name transfer system. I just did a transfer (from a limited company to myself) and paid the 30 quid. I didn't like paying 30 quid but it's the price you pay for a system that works on cost recovery and doesn't charge 100% of the community for a process less than 1% actually use.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[tmsdomreg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jac

Nominet likes to try and keep things as secure as possible for UK registrants. The same cannot be said for .com registrars. Easier or quicker doesn't equal more secure.

Did Nominet ever ask us if we wanted "more secure" ie;

Harder or slower and expensive (show me your Passport !)

or would we prefer..Easier or quicker and FREE ?

If you have the co-operation of the ISP transferring away a .co.uk it can all be done almost immediately with the usual up to 24hrs for the DNS to propogate globally. With a .com it can take anything from 2 to 4 or 5 days for a transfer to complete, particularly if the Registry is changing.

The fact that Nominet makes a charge for a TAG change is simply because they have to make certain investigations (why hasn't the registrant been able to get the ISP to action the transfer - and is the Registrant who he/she truly claims to be), so it seems reasonable that a charge should be made, and £15 seems fair.

Most ISPs don't make a charge for the transfer away of a domain (my thinking on this has always been if you charge a customer to leave you, you can probably bet your bottom dollar they won't come back again).

"Did Nominet ever ask us if we wanted more secure...." - IMO the answer would probably be "Yes Please"

Peter

 

[texidriver]

...Verisign is a commercial 'for profit' registry and the cost of domain name transfers is 'costed in' to the base price of a .com domain

The number of domain name transfers requested each month is somewhere in the region of 2,700 out of a total of 5,085,864 registrations. Should the other 99.947% of registrants pay for the 0.053% who do the transfers?..

Regards
James Conaghan

do the math, it would add £0.38p to a 2yr registration.

 

[aqls]

much less even, given that alot of them would be on bulk transfer cost.

-aqls-

 

[Jac]

Does the minority overrule the majority?

do the math, it would add £0.38p to a 2yr registration.

So help me understand your argument. Are you saying that it's okay to charge 5.1 million people an extra 38p per registration because around two and a half thousand of them use a very specific part of the system that the others don't use and may never use in the lifetime of their domains?

In an effort to be completely fair to you; let's multiply 2,700 x 12 (being the yearly figure) which equals 32,400. I would expect that within the next year we will have passed 6 million registrations because new domains are added monthly. So let's say 32,400 over 6,000,000 = 0.54%. Still less than 1% of stakeholders.

It's not the 38p that is a problem to me; it is the principle of charging everybody else to subsidise a minority. So I'm having difficulty understanding why 99.46% of stakeholders have to pay even a penny more than they should because a tiny minority use the domain name transfer system?

I hope that's clear enough because it's a genuine question to you.

PS: If we take your thinking to its logical conclusion we could add 3 or 5 quid to each domain name and have a free DRS... but here's the thing... there is no doubt in my mind that a free DRS system would be abused because there would be no financial penalty at all (as in the £750 entry fee) and you'd have every Tom, Dick and Wally bringing unnecessary and frivolous DRS's against ordinary stakeholders with all the stress and anxiety these disputes bring.

I know we've had our differences texidriver, but I hope you would not wish to create a system that is biased to minorities and open to abuse in terms of disputes?

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[texidriver]

...
It's not the 38p that is a problem to me; it is the principle of charging everybody else to subsidise a minority.

PS: If we take your thinking to its logical conclusion..
Regards
James Conaghan

What planet do you live on?
you do not understand the principle?

It would be dangerous (one of your words) to take my "thinking to its logical conclusion", are you Gunga Din?

I never suggested "free DRS"

 

[Jac]

What planet do you live on?
you do not understand the principle?

It would be dangerous (one of your words) to take my "thinking to its logical conclusion", are you Gunga Din?

I never suggested "free DRS"

Your lobotomy didn't help then?

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[Jac]

Explanation of the principle!

What planet do you live on?
you do not understand the principle?

It would be dangerous (one of your words) to take my "thinking to its logical conclusion", are you Gunga Din?

I never suggested "free DRS"

Your lobotomy didn't help then?

Oh, and I'm still having difficulty understanding why 99.46% of stakeholders have to pay even a penny more than they should because you think the rights of 0.53% of them are more important!

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[texidriver]

Bollocks!

Jac

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