Where is the thread thats pro .UK

[Retired_member41]

Is there a thread anywhere thats pro .UK or has information on what domainers plan to do if .UK goes ahead?

 

[WealdDomains]

Those feel like two distinct questions.

I think the strong anti-proposal feeling is mainly focused on :
- the shabby treatment of existing .sld.uk registrants (including small and large businesses, not just domainers), especially those who are .co.uk registrants, based on a fundamental disagreement with the Nominet stance that this is something new rather than a replacement for .co.uk
- the confusing and misleading bundling of several discrete proposals (such as the DNSSEC aspect) alongside direct.uk in a single proposal
- the naive reputational damage caused to .co.uk caused by the mere launch/wording of the consultation exercise, regardless of the outcome
- the trivial ease with which the bullish "UK domains for UK companies" stance is instantly holed below the waterline by preferential treatment of non-UK trademark holders and the weakness of the proposed location validation

The only fundamental disagreement that jumps to mind about the concept of direct.uk per se is the argument about the blockage of sld opportunities that may arise in the future, including blocking a simple approach to the costly parallel wales/cymru gtld proposal. If direct.uk had been launched many years ago prior to the launch of .co.uk, I think most people would have embraced it. But ... it wasn't, so they don't ... and this isn't a genuinely new launch.

The second question is about domainers' pragmatic responses to what may happen. Domainers will need cash to acquire direct.uk domains. That cashflow could be gained by other means but will most likely be achieved by sales (including fire sales) of existing domains or by reducing existing holdings through drops (not necessarily a bad thing if it encourages a focus on quality rather than quantity). It then becomes a choice about whether to focus that available cash on competing over the pearls in auctions or fighting over the pathetic dregs that eventually dribble through onto the open market. Yes, it does have the theoretical potential for a new bite of the cherry, but it is very questionable how likely those opportunities will be in practice ...

So, the first part has cropped up in some debate in the main thread and the second part is largely unspoken so far in the hopes that Nominet will see the error of their ways meaning that we don't need to resort to it.

David

Edit:typo

 

[Retired_member41]

great post David, thanks.

Foolishly I forgot about the pile of money you would have to have to participate.

As nominet are aware of people who buy and sell/ develop domains, wouldnt a judge rule that the releasing of their .UK version cause them undeserved harm, is that legal?

My partner worked for many years in the betting industry, he said that many times he had betting shop licences denied due to over provision in the area, is the .uk not the same?

I would still be interested to see what people are doing though, how they are making lists to catch etc

 

[namealot]

Nom know few will notice, bother or care... Business are more worried about pleasing “G” than than any new cctld Tld etc uk domainers will all reg them..? Many tunes will change to singing there praise if they get the ones there after slagging them off if they don’t ? Opportunities aplenty for those that have done the homework... one hell of alot of whinging, backstabbing, bitching just like the old days ?

 

[dougs]

issue

As someone who has bought and then massively developed .co.uk domains I can tell you people who own the co.uk's are peed off. We and many others have spent millions developing brands, it feels like we will now have to buy the real estate again but with no gaurantee we will get it.

As a dirty cybersquatter I think wow so many companies I can hold to ransom

Doug

 

[GreyWing]

If it goes ahead - plan A cybersquatt like everyone else is going to do.

Find some decent small level business on .co.uk who won't pay the £20 because they think they don't need it. Hold it a few months / years, live of their traffic (park at sedo). Then when they realise they need it, sell it to back to them for £500 (still £250 cheaper than a drs).

Not a plan I'd be using but if you have no rules, people stand to make a fortune out of this. I'd make more doing that than if it doesn't go ahead.

All you would be doing is what Nominet are doing, just on a smaller scale.

 

[foz]

@ £20 a piece uptake by domainers in large quantities 10,000+ will be few and far between. It's probably why Nomient has pitched at a high buy-in point to discourage volume warehousing.

 

[GreyWing]

@ £20 a piece uptake by domainers in large quantities 10,000+ will be few and far between. It's probably why Nomient has pitched at a high buy-in point to discourage volume warehousing.

But with a snowball effect, you sell one at £500 you can buy 14 more (inc vat) and still make a profit.

Plus there will of course be traffic leakage from .uk to bring in cash flow through parking etc.

The biggest factor will be as a squatter you can look at the .co.uk and see if it is a successful site before targeting it. £20 will be nothing once someone is up and running.

 

[foz]

But with a snowball effect, you sell one at £500 you can buy 14 more (inc vat) and still make a profit.

Plus there will of course be traffic leakage from .uk to bring in cash flow through parking etc.

The biggest factor will be as a squatter you can look at the .co.uk and see if it is a successful site before targeting it. £20 will be nothing once someone is up and running.

Agreed, but my comment was more to do with domainers buying up large tracks of .uk land. lessened so I believe with a high buy-in point. And if by auction forget about it, £10K may only buy you one decent .uk.

 

[websaway]

Those feel like two distinct questions.

I think the strong anti-proposal feeling is mainly focused on :
- the shabby treatment of existing .sld.uk registrants (including small and large businesses, not just domainers), especially those who are .co.uk registrants, based on a fundamental disagreement with the Nominet stance that this is something new rather than a replacement for .co.uk
- the confusing and misleading bundling of several discrete proposals (such as the DNSSET aspect) alongside direct.uk in a single proposal
- the naive reputational damage caused to .co.uk caused by the mere launch/wording of the consultation exercise, regardless of the outcome
- the trivial ease with which the bullish "UK domains for UK companies" stance is instantly holed below the waterline by preferential treatment of non-UK trademark holders and the weakness of the proposed location validation

The only fundamental disagreement that jumps to mind about the concept of direct.uk per se is the argument about the blockage of sld opportunities that may arise in the future, including blocking a simple approach to the costly parallel wales/cymru gtld proposal. If direct.uk had been launched many years ago prior to the launch of .co.uk, I think most people would have embraced it. But ... it wasn't, so they don't ... and this isn't a genuinely new launch.

The second question is about domainers' pragmatic responses to what may happen. Domainers will need cash to acquire direct.uk domains. That cashflow could be gained by other means but will most likely be achieved by sales (including fire sales) of existing domains or by reducing existing holdings through drops (not necessarily a bad thing if it encourages a focus on quality rather than quantity). It then becomes a choice about whether to focus that available cash on competing over the pearls in auctions or fighting over the pathetic dregs that eventually dribble through onto the open market. Yes, it does have the theoretical potential for a new bite of the cherry, but it is very questionable how likely those opportunities will be in practice ...

So, the first part has cropped up in some debate in the main thread and the second part is largely unspoken so far in the hopes that Nominet will see the error of their ways meaning that we don't need to resort to it.

David

Edit:typo

For me one of the most succinct posts I have ever had the pleasure to read on this forum.

 

[foz]

Domainers may have to hold .uk for many years to get a good return.

Holding 5,000 for 5 years (@£20 PA) = £500,000.

It will still be very speculative as to whether .uk takes hold or not.

 

[Edwin]

Watch the big US players swoop in if they can see a value play -
they'll have no trouble at all vacuuming up 100,000s of .uk names at a £20 pricepoint. When you see the sums some have poured in the new GTLD process (in the high $10 millions) it's a drop in the ocean to them.

 

[foz]

Watch the big US players swoop in if they can see a value play -
they'll have no trouble at all vacuuming up 100,000s of .uk names at a £20 pricepoint. When you see the sums some have poured in the new GTLD process (in the high $10 millions) it's a drop in the ocean to them.

Maybe, however the short .co.uk domains haven't flown out the door. Some may not be back for more loses and stick with buying a couple (or dozen) of premium .com's instead.

Anyone selling a .uk will be to the .co.uk owner. I doubt any buyer would want the .uk only, with the .co.uk in play with someone else.

 

[domainking]

Good Thing

I think the launch of the .UK is a good thing for the industry lets face it, as a typical domainer yes its a shame that my .co.uk domains now worth 5% of the value they were. Now focusing have dropped names that had just holding them as had them few years they now getting deleted now waiting on the new land rush like everyone else hope to pick up a few good quality domains.

Like every other business if you put your eggs all one basket when something like this happens it kill your business if you only bought .co.uk domains, thats why also good to have % .com domains. and on personal note never liked .co.uk could never understand why they did not launch .UK at start. Every domainer knew it was just a matter of time that .UK would get launched do you really think that you have .co.uk you should get the .UK I dont think so. its a business you pay you get you sell or develop.

bring it on what a great way to start 2013 buying .UK domains just look at all those new jobs that nominet will create with all that extra money,

 

[foz]

with all that extra money,

Nominet will give it all away (charity trust), what a waste.

 

[Nigel]

Nominet will give it all away (charity trust), what a waste.

Which I see is pointed out in the very first paragraph of Lesley Cowley's profile on their Board of Director's profile page:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/structure/board

I'm all for supporting good causes but should a non-profit organisation take money from hard working businesses and individuals and re-distribute in this way?

 

[websaway]

I think the launch of the .UK is a good thing for the industry lets face it, as a typical domainer yes its a shame that my .co.uk domains now worth 5% of the value they were. Now focusing have dropped names that had just holding them as had them few years they now getting deleted now waiting on the new land rush like everyone else hope to pick up a few good quality domains.

Like every other business if you put your eggs all one basket when something like this happens it kill your business if you only bought .co.uk domains, thats why also good to have % .com domains. and on personal note never liked .co.uk could never understand why they did not launch .UK at start. Every domainer knew it was just a matter of time that .UK would get launched do you really think that you have .co.uk you should get the .UK I dont think so. its a business you pay you get you sell or develop.

bring it on what a great way to start 2013 buying .UK domains just look at all those new jobs that nominet will create with all that extra money,

Putting my neck on the line. I don't share your confidence about the introduction of .uk, I think it won't happen and in reality your domains were probably only worth 5% of what you thought anyway plus the google thing killed a lot of values so that's where you may have taken a hit.

 

[foz]

Which I see is pointed out in the very first paragraph of Lesley Cowley's profile on their Board of Director's profile page:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/structure/board

I'm all for supporting good causes but should a non-profit organisation take money from hard working businesses and individuals and re-distribute in this way?

Nominet is a dichotomy, on one hand they require more funds to sustain and develop infrastructure and on the other they are bound by the constitution(?) to give away the profit to charity. Seems a bizarre way of doing things, a perpetual need for more funds.

 

[Nigel]

Nominet is a dichotomy, on one hand they require more funds to sustain and develop infrastructure and on the other they are bound by the constitution(?) to give away the profit to charity. Seems a bizarre way of doing things, a perpetual need for more funds.

Agree with you on that Foz and the bizzare situation where the need for more funds means that this non profit organisation strips £3m off businesses and individuals in a domain auction for .co.uk domains just over a year ago. Then they proudly announce they have given it all away. Then they announce a consultation on a better and 'more secure' alternative to .co.uk without the slightest thought about the businesses and individuals that have been fleeced, and are sitting there with a devalued investment, and the prospect of a mighty battle to get back what's rightfully theirs. Yes, I agree they are a dichotomy and a heartless one at that.

 

[Edwin]

Agree with you on that Foz and the bizzare situation where the need for more funds means that this non profit organisation strips £3m off businesses and individuals in a domain auction for .co.uk domains just over a year ago. Then they proudly announce they have given it all away. Then they announce a consultation on a better and 'more secure' alternative to .co.uk without the slightest thought about the businesses and individuals that have been fleeced, and are sitting there with a devalued investment, and the prospect of a mighty battle to get back what's rightfully theirs. Yes, I agree they are a dichotomy and a heartless one at that.

Nominet seem to measure their "success" in many different ways, only a few of which actually mesh with their business.
1) Number of domains under registration
2) Renewal rates
3) Awareness of UK domain extensions
4) Sums "stolen" straight from the pockets of businesses to give as largesse to non-profit endeavours as Nominet sees fit (you only have to see all the gleeful headlines about the work of the Nominet Trust to see what a kick they get out of this part of their remit!)
5) Clout in government and policy-making circles

Only 1-3 really relate to their business, 4) is ridiculous (I've posted many times about "forced" charitable contributions not being contributions at all) and 5) is for the self-gratification of the Board/Executive.