Has the .uk market dropped on its arse

[Lucky Luke]

Can't argue with that, but could that £10 have been £100 within the year?

 

[fish]

When I say different, there seems to be more and more members catching/registering domains one minute then dumping them on here the next like hot potatoes - usually for peanuts. D

So by that there are bargains to be had no matter what your status in the domaining business is (long time serious / short term fly by night type).

Market trader mentality Versus ???

I personally believe that the domain selling sector is a long way off maturity since the client / customer pool lack serious awareness of:

!) availability of pre owned domains & where they can buy one
2) the value (both short & long term) of securing a (properly considered) domain for their business
3) The internet & how it is the most cost effective way to attract business and effect sales (obviously not for all but I'd say the greater percentage)

 

[aZooZa]

Can't argue with that, but could that £10 have been £100 within the year?

Maybe it's the could'a should'a would'a syndrome. In business terms, you'd be hard pushed to return a profit like that over a year.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Agreed, but you have to find an awful lot of domains to make it worth your while if your just making £4 on each flip.

A quick aside: I know a woman who goes to the poundshops in Derby looking for nice underpriced items. She then flogs them on ebay using the 99p entry (which makes it cheaper to sell) but regularly gets £10 to £12 on these items. She does nice volume - something that's hard to do with domains.

One item she did was father christmas jackets for small dogs - sold dozens of the things

But each to their own - that's the beauty of some of the market inefficiencies of domaining.

Cheers, Luke

 

[aZooZa]

Agreed, but you have to find an awful lot of domains to make it worth your while if your just making £4 on each flip.

Look to org.uk single keywords. A whole new market for flips or keepers

 

[Lucky Luke]

You looking at me?

 

[aZooZa]

You looking at me?

No.......... me

 

[Edwin]

Edwin

Whilst I agree 100% with what you are saying, you are also guilty of posting large lists of names with for example :

1 @ £2500
5 @ £2000
10 @ £1750
20 @ £1500 (best price)
etc..

So are you saying that these are the same sorts of price that you also use with end users OR are you lowering the prices to raise capital for other areas, at that moment in time ?

You don't have to answer, but just curious really

Similar to end-user prices, I'd say (starting price, anyway). My pricelist is public, just download it from my site and take a look... End-users nearly always just buy the one domain, so discounts wouldn't come into the picture in that case anyway.

 

[Edwin]

In reallity I don't think this happens with quality domains so much as mediocre names which are not a great hold but might see a profit on a swift sale, especially if others have been stalking the name prior to it dropping. Drops are often fools gold. But, register a name today for £5 sell tomorrow for £40, makes good business sense for a beginner.

True, but it's rarely the same people dumping the so-so caught names and catching the best ones. The really decent ones all go to the same few people - and they're not dumping! So the logic breaks down somewhere in the middle...

 

[aZooZa]

There's a lot of clever and quiet 'hoarding' going on with .org.uk. The 'flip' for 100% profit remains a sound business model. Peter Jones told me that before he became the world's lankiest celeb.

 

[domainseller200]

Similar to end-user prices, I'd say (starting price, anyway). My pricelist is public, just download it from my site and take a look... End-users nearly always just buy the one domain, so discounts wouldn't come into the picture in that case anyway.

Thanks Edwin

Have you found from experience that you get a much better conversion rate / number of sales by putting a fixed price, as opposed to "make offer" ?

I have always believed that you will get much more "real" interest and likely to convert if the price is made known BEFORE contacting, as they already know the expectation before they even start.

I am guessing that you think similar, as that is what you appear to use as your business model.

In my mind, my theory is always this - If a name says "offers please" and the seller is expecting £5k for it, this will create lots of wasted interest and time for both parties, as you will always get the tyre kickers AND people who only personally value them alot lower anyway, and would never pay the £5k.

I understand some domainers want to "test the water" with the interested party, but I think they would rarely come out with £5k as an opening offer, and maybe not even £1k as they wouldn't want to offer too much in the first instance AND the name may not be worth more than £1k to them personally

I would rather deal with 20 enquiries for domains which have an advertised £2,500 price tag and convert 5-10 of them into actual sales, than have domains with "offers please" and receive 50 enquiries and be lucky to convert 1 at the £5,000 level after countless negotiation emails and wasting time on enquiries which turn into nothing.

Put it into the real world - A shop keeper knows how much he wants for his items, as he openly has them priced up. If this shop had "offers please" on all of his items, he wouldn't sell 1% of what he does when everything is priced up from the word go.

Setting peoples expectations is surely the best way to be when selling domains IMO, hence why I like the style of how you do business Edwin, as it obviously works very well.

 

[Edwin]

It is much less hassle with fixed prices, plus if people contact me they've already passed the "are you serious?" test. Life's too short to spend all day trading emails with people who think that 50 pounds "is a great profit for you to make on reg fee" which is what tends to happen with "make offer" pricing. I've covered this extensively in previous posts...

 

[cm1975]

There are similarities between the sales format on AD and the Scottish housing market.

In a buoyant market, the Offers Over sales strategy works well for the seller. You get you're fair share of tyre-kickers, that are out to get a bargain and will not go anywhere near the price it will sell for, but for a nice house in the right location, then it will generate interest and sell well. It might take longer, but you'll get the right price in the end!

If you want a quick sale, then it's Fixed Price all the way, unless it's something special.


In a depressed market, then the Offers Offer only works for something that is an absolute gem, otherwise, you could be in for a long wait ..... but can you wait long because within 24 hours, your offers over thread is off the first page of that section and going out of sight fast!

Therefore, the fixed price is the way to go, especially when there are people who will look at the price and put in an offer slightly under it.


Supply on AD is way above demand, so the only thing that can happen on here is for the AD market to fall on it's arse. However, outwith these "four walls", web development is still going on and new sites are coming on-line every day, so you need to look outwards for the real value in domains and not rely on the reseller market.



EDIT - What is probably need around here is a domain brokerage service. Someone that will go out and market the domain and get a percentage of the sale. If you go back to the comparison of the housing market, then how many people go about selling their own house? You need someone to go out and actively market it with mail drops or by phoning around.

 

[domainseller200]

Supply on AD is way above demand, so the only thing that can happen on here is for the AD market to fall on it's arse. However, outwith these "four walls", web development is still going on and new sites are coming on-line every day, so you need to look outwards for the real value in domains and not rely on the reseller market.

"Supply on AD is way above demand"

I would disagree - the amount of trash that is posted on here in recent months which doesn't sell, gives the wrong impression of supply and demand.

Rich posted a list of good quality .org.uk names fixed at £1k each last weekend and sold more than 10 in under 2 hours - that means there was people willing to spend £10k in the blink of an eye - ON THE CORRECT NAMES which are actually worth the money.

Even a £1 shop couldn't sell something for a £1 if it isn't deemed to be worth a £1

Just look at current threads showing in the domain appraisals section - truly shocking the majority of them

 

[Edwin]

That means that supply IS way above demand.

If people post 10,000 names between them, and 50 sell, then there was an oversupply of 9,950 names. Of course, having a reason for them not selling takes nothing away from the fact that they represent an excess of supply vs demand.

Rich posted a list of good quality .org.uk names fixed at £1k each last weekend and sold more than 10 in under 2 hours - that means there was people willing to spend £10k in the blink of an eye - ON THE CORRECT NAMES which are actually worth the money.

Actually, what he did was the same as the people dumping pretty decent names at 50 pounds or so, only he did it with much better names at a higher price point. Any time you sell 10 of a limited (unique, actually) commodity that normally takes weeks/months/years to sell in the space of a few hours, it's down to present value of money. In other words, leaving a ton of cash on the table in exchange for money in your pocket now.

The fact that he sold 10 so quickly shows what ridiculously high discounts he was offering to "true" value - people don't spend £1k on a whim, after all...

 

[domainseller200]

That means that supply IS way above demand.

If people post 10,000 names between them, and 50 sell, then there was an oversupply of 9,950 names. Of course, having a reason for them not selling takes nothing away from the fact that they represent an excess of supply vs demand.

Well thats just stating a fact of life in any market place - in every industry supply far outweighs demand*, so domains are no different.



*Apart from iPhone 4

 

[Edwin]

Well thats just stating a fact of life in any market place - in every industry supply far outweighs demand*, so domains are no different.
*Apart from iPhone 4

Actually not. Usually supply and demand fluctuate around an equilibrium. Basic economics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

It's only because domains cost "nothing" to manufacture and because a worthless domain costs exactly the same to "make" as a decent domain that we have the vast over-burden of supply over demand.

Probably 9 out of 10 (or 19 out of 20) domains "bought to resell" will NEVER sell. Literally never ever, no matter if they're renewed for a thousand years. Because their value will always be lower than regfee.

 

[domainseller200]

Actually, what he did was the same as the people dumping pretty decent names at 50 pounds or so, only he did it with much better names at a higher price point. Any time you sell 10 of a limited (unique, actually) commodity that normally takes weeks/months/years to sell in the space of a few hours, it's down to present value of money. In other words, leaving a ton of cash on the table in exchange for money in your pocket now.

The fact that he sold 10 so quickly shows what ridiculously high discounts he was offering to "true" value - people don't spend £1k on a whim, after all...

Which was exactly what I was referring to earlier in this post, with regards to you adopting the same practises yourself from time to time, just on a higher scale again.

 

[domainseller200]

Probably 9 out of 10 (or 19 out of 20) domains "bought to resell" will NEVER sell. Literally never ever, no matter if they're renewed for a thousand years. Because their value will always be lower than regfee.

100% agree

 

[Edwin]

Which was exactly what I was referring to earlier in this post, with regards to you adopting the same practises yourself from time to time, just on a higher scale again.

In my mind, there's a clear separation between somebody picking a few gems off the shelf and clearing 5 figures in an afternoon and somebody who's ongoing business model (based on the evidence of their forums posts) seems to be to sell their gems for peanuts in order to keep the lesser-quality gems in inventory.