POLL: Domainers – How many .uk domains do you hold?

[sneezycheese]

Following on from the ‘WHOIS details’ thread and the argument over the number of Domainers, I thought it would be a good idea to poll you fine fellows and lasses as to the number of .uk domains you hold in a Domainer capacity.

Those of you who have over 2,000 domains in this category can you post the total number in this thread and also tell us if you are a Nominet Tag Holder or not?

Many thanks in advance,

Sneezycheese.

 

[Jay Daley]

Following on from the ‘WHOIS details’ thread and the argument over the number of Domainers, I thought it would be a good idea to poll you fine fellows and lasses as to the number of .uk domains you hold in a Domainer capacity.

My current total is 4,984,080.

Seriously though , great idea. Thanks.

 

[retired_member6]

I'm not meaning to detract from the above but another good poll would be how all on here define a domainer, to me domainers encompass several groups and aren't just one group on their own. Jay or Jac? at Nominet felt a domainer was seperate from PPC to those who rent out etc. they're not.

I selected 200 to 500 but I have other extensions, like most in affiliate marketing we hold quite a few domains so have one foot in domaining but it's not our main business. Although I've enjoyed this side of my business for the last seven months as it's natural to be a domainer in AM.

 

[aqls]

I think those numbers should include some bigger figures e.g. 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 and even more - you (and Nominet) may be surprised. Oh, and by the way I bet some of the bigger holders won't vote as they're probably a bit embarrassed by the numbers, because, after all it's not exactly a popular position to be in.

I don't think it is necessary to have a TAG to have lots of domains, and some people may have some in their tag, and many outside.

I am glad Jay suggested that it is an "evolution" (my words). We start by buying a few then gradually parking comes along and then affiliates come along and then a combination of news and affiliation and ads comes along and before you know it each domain is a business in itself. All perfectly legitimate in my view.

It's the useage that should be determined by a DRS, not the ownership. Like a database of songs, some songs may have the same title but once someone starts listening to it they realise its not the one they want and move on.

If someone chooses to use the domain to nick business off someone else whose name matches the domain then case for DRS for them to back off and sell something non competitive.

JMO

-aqls-

 

[olebean]

If someone chooses to use the domain to nick business off someone else whose name matches the domain then case for DRS for them to back off and sell something non competitive.

JMO

-aqls-

I do agree with that, only one problem... take the recent xbox DRS case, could they nick business off microsoft? They dont sell them direct to the public......

There is one issue with this thread are you all domainers?

 

[Jac]

Following on from the ‘WHOIS details’ thread and the argument over the number of Domainers, I thought it would be a good idea to poll you fine fellows and lasses as to the number of .uk domains you hold in a Domainer capacity.

Those of you who have over 2,000 domains in this category can you post the total number in this thread and also tell us if you are a Nominet Tag Holder or not?

Many thanks in advance,

Sneezycheese.

Simon,

As Jay said, good idea... but what are you trying to achieve with the figures? I said the following in a reply to olebean (in the "Whois details" thread):

[/B]"Significant domains" does not equate to significant representation.[/B]

One domainer only represents themselves and their own vested interests. Even if they hold 1 million domain names in their investment portfolio, they do not represent the interests or wishes of 1 million registrants. Similarly, I do not believe any one Tag Holder who holds hundreds of thousands of registrations (on their tag) represents each and every registrant. IMHO vested interests have no place in the governance of the .uk registry. This is a community, and it would be nice if people showed a tad more social responsibility (or corporate social responsibility)! Just as there is a conflict of interests in suggesting that one registrant should take precedence over another because of domain wealth, there is a conflict of interests in one tag holder trying to control the .uk registry. The .uk registry should act in the interests of all stakeholders equally; not just those rich in domain names.

For the sake of the argument, let's assume there are 10,000 individual domainers on Acorn Domains. This still only equates to 10,000 individuals seeking representation within the .uk domain name system. A significant figure perhaps, but still a (small) minority. The .uk Registry has a responsibility to the whole community totalling nearly 5,000,000 .uk domain names.

In the "Whois details" thread, I also asked olebean if he was seeking preferential treatment for domainers and I think he says he is not (though he still seems to argue the system is biased against them). So with the best of goodwill, what are you hoping to show by the figures you are polling?

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[denchomsky]

Simon,

As Jay said, good idea... but what are you trying to achieve with the figures? I said the following in a reply to olebean (in the "Whois details" thread):



For the sake of the argument, let's assume there are 10,000 individual domainers on Acorn Domains. This still only equates to 10,000 individuals seeking representation within the .uk domain name system. A significant figure perhaps, but still a (small) minority. The .uk Registry has a responsibility to the whole community totalling nearly 5,000,000 .uk domain names.

In the "Whois details" thread, I also asked olebean if he was seeking preferential treatment for domainers and I think he says he is not (though he still seems to argue the system is biased against them). So with the best of goodwill, what are you hoping to show by the figures you are polling?

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

Hey! it's just a poll not a seminar!

 

[aqls]

Hey! it's just a poll not a seminar!

LOL

It's not just what you think Jac, it's an important statistic relevant to us all.

-aqls-

 

[Jac]

LOL

It's not just what you think Jac, it's an important statistic relevant to us all.

-aqls-

Dearie me... and here I was thinking there was some actual reason for doing it (like it might actually teach us all something we could work with).

Silly me.

<heads off into sunset smacking himself all over the place with his ludicrously reasonable expectations>



Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[Jac]

Hey! it's just a poll not a seminar!

Well if it's just a bit o' fun you want, the silliest poll I ever saw was one asking "Do you vote in polls". Some people actually answered "No".

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[Jac]

I think those numbers should include some bigger figures e.g. 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 and even more - you (and Nominet) may be surprised. Oh, and by the way I bet some of the bigger holders won't vote as they're probably a bit embarrassed by the numbers, because, after all it's not exactly a popular position to be in.

I don't think it is necessary to have a TAG to have lots of domains, and some people may have some in their tag, and many outside.

I am glad Jay suggested that it is an "evolution" (my words). We start by buying a few then gradually parking comes along and then affiliates come along and then a combination of news and affiliation and ads comes along and before you know it each domain is a business in itself. All perfectly legitimate in my view.

It's the useage that should be determined by a DRS, not the ownership. Like a database of songs, some songs may have the same title but once someone starts listening to it they realise its not the one they want and move on.

If someone chooses to use the domain to nick business off someone else whose name matches the domain then case for DRS for them to back off and sell something non competitive.

JMO

-aqls-

Hey! it's just a poll not a seminar! :twisted:

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[denchomsky]

Well if it's just a bit o' fun you want, the silliest poll I ever saw was one asking "Do you vote in polls". Some people actually answered "No".

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

Ha, I like that

What did you vote in that poll jac?

 

[charlie]

i'd have less if i could sell some!

 

[sneezycheese]

Dictionary Definition of a 'Domainer'

"An entrepreneur making his or her fortune in the field of domain names by offering domain-name related services to clients; or by investing in individual domain names for resale or development." ...I think in one way or another that covers most, if not all of us.


I'll reply to Jac's comments later, when there's more poll results in...

PS: Jac - I'm still waiting on a reply to my emails sent soo, soo long ago. Have you been 'advised' not to communicate with me on the subject in question???

 

[sneezycheese]

Total number of people polled so far = 33

Minimum total domain holding for the 33 members = 14,271

Maximum total domain holding for the 33 members = 28,542 (based on a threshold of 4,000 domains at the top level for simplicity)… I take on board what aqls said about those ‘Domainers’ who undoubtedly have a considerable amount more.

There are currently 1,495 members of Acorn Domains, of which lets be conservative and say only 50% of us hold domains in a ‘Domainer’ capacity, giving us a figure of 747 (less the 0.5).

I’ll ignore the fact that there is undoubtedly a huge number of ‘Domainers’ out there who are not Acorn Domain members to keep the maths nice and simple.

So based on the figures and limits set above, at the lower end of the scale we have on average 323,043 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity, whilst at the upper end we have 646,087 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity. That generates total revenue of between £807,608 and £1,615,217 per year into Nominet’s coffers! …And let’s not forget these figures are just based on a very conservative figure derived only from Acorn Domain members!!!

I wonder how many more .uk ‘Domainers’ there are out there???

Almost finally ‘in brief’ to answer Jac’s question – I believe that within Nominet there should be a system of proportional representation for those end users (hey it would even be ‘Democratic’), not as it is at the moment where a select few ‘Tag’ holders have the say and who quite frankly DO NOT have as Jac quoted; “a responsibility to the whole community”.

Hey I guess seeing as though ‘Domainers’ have 10% of the pot, it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that they should get 10% of the vote.

In addition, it’s been said that Nominet would like the wider community to become more aware and involved with the running of Nominet. Well if this is true, then rather than just posting details of a ‘Public Consultation’ on the Nominet website (which quite frankly is NOT reaching out to the ‘wider community’), why don’t they send out a letter to each and every domain holder??? Please, please, I don’t want to hear that it would be a ‘logistical nightmare’ or any other ‘excuse’, because quite frankly it won’t rub with me and probably quite a lot of other people on this forum.

Thank you to all of you who have participated in the poll.

It will remain open for those who haven’t yet posted.

 

[Jay Daley]

So based on the figures and limits set above, at the lower end of the scale we have on average 323,043 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity, whilst at the upper end we have 646,087 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity. That generates total revenue of between £807,608 and £1,615,217 per year into Nominet’s coffers! …And let’s not forget these figures are just based on a very conservative figure derived only from Acorn Domain members!!!

To borrow a phrase from your lexicon, that is complete rubbish. The preposterous assumption in these mangled calculations is that the proportions from the survey can be extrapolated to the rest of them.

With a sample size of 33 from a population of 1,495 you have a +/- 16.8% deviation on a 50% answer. The 2/33 who are over 2,000, instead of staying at 6% when extrapolated up could be anywhere +/- 8% and so on.

 

[sneezycheese]

To borrow a phrase from your lexicon, that is complete rubbish. The preposterous assumption in these mangled calculations is that the proportions from the survey can be extrapolated to the rest of them.

With a sample size of 33 from a population of 1,495 you have a +/- 16.8% deviation on a 50% answer. The 2/33 who are over 2,000, instead of staying at 6% when extrapolated up could be anywhere +/- 8% and so on.

...I did say I was keeping things simple - ah well.

Jay maybe you could answer this 'simple' question: How many 'entities' individually hold 10 or more .uk domains?

 

[Michael Penman]

Total number of people polled so far = 33

Minimum total domain holding for the 33 members = 14,271

Maximum total domain holding for the 33 members = 28,542 (based on a threshold of 4,000 domains at the top level for simplicity)…

There are currently 1,495 members of Acorn Domains, of which lets be conservative and say only 50% of us hold domains in a ‘Domainer’ capacity, giving us a figure of 747 (less the 0.5).

I’ll ignore the fact that there is undoubtedly a huge number of ‘Domainers’ out there who are not Acorn Domain members to keep the maths nice and simple.

So based on the figures and limits set above, at the lower end of the scale we have on average 323,043 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity, whilst at the upper end we have 646,087 domains being held in a ‘Domainer’ capacity. That generates total revenue of between £807,608 and £1,615,217 per year into Nominet’s coffers!
A

Oh. Oh dear. Now that is stats abuse.

It's nearly as good as my current favourite stats abuse: the adverts for anti-wrinkle creams where the voiceover says, 'Effective in 75% of cases' (or similar), and the tiny text at the bottom of the screen says, 'Tested on a sample of 60 women. Results measured by questionnaire.'

I'll stop now, before I start ranting about the annoyance caused by their invented substances. 'Now with probono biotium!', and so forth. Grr.

 

[Nigel]

Oh. Oh dear. Now that is stats abuse.

It's nearly as good as my current favourite stats abuse: the adverts for anti-wrinkle creams where the voiceover says, 'Effective in 75% of cases' (or similar), and the tiny text at the bottom of the screen says, 'Tested on a sample of 60 women. Results measured by questionnaire.'

I'll stop now, before I start ranting about the annoyance caused by their invented substances. 'Now with probono biotium!', and so forth. Grr.

Maybe the statistical method used by sneazycheezy to return a figure of between 323,000 and 626,000 for number of domains owned by 'domainers' is a bit unorthodox but the final figures could be on the low side. I'm sure many of us who spend day upon day checking the whois would not be surprised if it was found that 30-40% of all .uk domains were owned by domain investors/speculators. We are probably in a better position than Nominet in recognising the same names and companies that crop up on the whois and it comes after years of experience. Now if Nominet's total .uk registrations are around 4m - then 30-40% would put domain investors/speculators holdings at 1.2 - 1.6m. I don't suppose it could ever be proved but any analysis of say 1000 random domains would, I'm sure, show the very high 'domainer' ownership ratio.

 

[olebean]

Nigel

I all comes down to whether nominet are willing to allow/ sanction or sponser research.....

I am waiting for Jay / Jac etc to come back on that...... I am sure if there isnt an answer shortly there could be conclusions drawn..