suit-shop.co.uk vs suitshop.co.uk - quick (i.e non scientific) test

[domsaleuk]

Expect all the counter arguments soon then.

So here goes ....Counter Arguments – Suitshop.co.uk v suit-shop.co.uk

• This is not a good enough test at all – you can’t just test holding pages – it should be done on a mini site or better still proper sites
• At one point we had 100’s holding pages live ( hyphen v non hyphen and when I analysed results there was very little between the two by my recollection)
• This is not an equal test – suitshop.co.uk is a drop whereas suit-shop.co.uk is a new registration and a drop "could" carry a lot more power from an SEO perspective
• Suitshop.co.uk has more back links – 5 external backlinks and 3 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)
• Suit-shop.co.uk only has has 3 external backlinks and 2 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)
• One could be being penalised as they both have very similar content and if one is to be penalised it will likely be the one that Google views as the newest (see below)
• Suitshop.co.uk has an Alexa ranking whereas suit-shop.co.uk doesn’t – I don't know why this is but am guessing this is probably because suitshop.co.uk has been live before? (but I could be wrong) whereas suit-shop.co.uk hasn’t and alongside this adding to Google's perception of what is the newest this is another thing that could distort results from an SEO perspective .

I could go on ... but I will wait to be shouted down first

 

[Marcoose]

So here goes ....Counter Arguments – Suitshop.co.uk v suit-shop.co.uk

• This is not a good enough test at all – you can’t just test holding pages – it should be done on a mini site or better still proper sites
• At one point we had 100’s holding pages live ( hyphen v non hyphen and when I analysed results there was very little between the two by my recollection)
• This is not an equal test – suitshop.co.uk is a drop whereas suit-shop.co.uk is a new registration and a drop "could" carry a lot more power from an SEO perspective
• Suitshop.co.uk has more back links – 5 external backlinks and 3 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)
• Suit-shop.co.uk only has has 3 external backlinks and 2 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)
• One could be being penalised as they both have very similar content and if one is to be penalised it will likely be the one that Google views as the newest (see below)
• Suitshop.co.uk has an Alexa ranking whereas suit-shop.co.uk doesn’t – I don't know why this is but am guessing this is probably because suitshop.co.uk has been live before? (but I could be wrong) whereas suit-shop.co.uk hasn’t and alongside this adding to Google's perception of what is the newest this is another thing that could distort results from an SEO perspective .

I could go on ... but I will wait to be shouted down first

No shouting down from me. All valid points but I don't think suitshop.co.uk had a site before.

This

"This is not an equal test – suitshop.co.uk is a drop whereas suit-shop.co.uk is a new registration and a drop "could" carry a lot more power from an SEO perspective"

and this

" Suitshop.co.uk has more back links – 5 external backlinks and 3 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)
• Suit-shop.co.uk only has has 3 external backlinks and 2 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)"

I've not looked at the backlinks but defo could be a factor.

 

[Bailey]

I could go on ... but I will wait to be shouted down first

Not from me - I actually thought it an unfair comparison due to the word usage. "suitshop" being a pretty much accepted "double word" The argument would need two words that don't pair so well (as in suitshop) in order to highlight the differences.

mind you I do still think you are wrong over all in your beliefs

 

[doodlebug]

Poor Kate, bet you wish you hadn't bothered

Nice one for trying though, good to see a domainer doing some research

 

[Bailey]

Poor Kate, bet you wish you hadn't bothered

Nice one for trying though, good to see a domainer doing some research

Indeed

Mind you thats a big, big difference in page-rank. I'm personally happy to believe the rest of the 'Industry' has got it right (domain sales) then someone that is betting on his own slightly skewed beliefs and investments

 

[domsaleuk]

Not from me - I actually thought it an unfair comparison due to the word usage. "suitshop" being a pretty much accepted "double word" The argument would need two words that don't pair so well (as in suitshop) in order to highlight the differences.

mind you I do still think you are wrong over all in your beliefs

Lol - what do you mean though - the fact that I think hyphens are as strong as non hyphens ? or generally everything

 

[domsaleuk]

Poor Kate, bet you wish you hadn't bothered

Nice one for trying though, good to see a domainer doing some research

Yes - I think it was good you tried too and I am not trying to be annoying - I just think in order to do this properly we would need to spend time and put together a better test.

 

[domsaleuk]

Indeed

Mind you thats a big, big difference in page-rank. I'm personally happy to believe the rest of the 'Industry' has got it right (domain sales) then someone that is betting on his own slightly skewed beliefs and investments

There is one of the main issues - in order for the true value of domains to be realised the domain industry and SEO industry need to move closer together as do the development and marketing industries incidentally. Until such time domains will only have the value that "domainers" say they have! and as much as you may think the domain industry is right I don't believe that the domain industry has a strong enough grasp on the other areas to be right.

 

[Bailey]

Lol - what do you mean though - the fact that I think hyphens are as strong as non hyphens ? or generally everything

No, no certainly not everything - well not yet anyway

I consider myself to be a very fair minded Bigot

 

[Blossom]

Not from me - I actually thought it an unfair comparison due to the word usage. "suitshop" being a pretty much accepted "double word" The argument would need two words that don't pair so well (as in suitshop) in order to highlight the differences.

I don't understand what you're saying here?

 

[Marcoose]

I don't understand what you're saying here?

I'm glad to see it wasn't just me who was confused about this!

 

[doodlebug]

I'm glad to see it wasn't just me who was confused about this!

He means like this sort of word supermarket you don't put super market with a space you put it without one although personally I don't see suitshop as a double word I think it is seperate like this suit shop.

My own post has confused me, I don't know if I should have put with out or without another double word I think.

 

[kate-brownhill]

• This is not a good enough test at all – you can’t just test holding pages – it should be done on a mini site or better still proper sites

Well, thanks for that. Its an equal test. both have holding pages. Why would you speculate one is better than the other if they both contain the same number of pages? If I add 5 more pages, will you then admit that I, and the vast majority of the SEO community are right? No? Did not think so.

• At one point we had 100’s holding pages live ( hyphen v non hyphen and when I analysed results there was very little between the two by my recollection)

Please show us some analysis or any form of evidence. Everything you write is a bit vague and never with specifics.

• This is not an equal test – suitshop.co.uk is a drop whereas suit-shop.co.uk is a new registration and a drop "could" carry a lot more power from an SEO perspective

Please show me your evidence that suit-shop.co.uk is a “new” registration. Also, on top of that, there is absolutely no logical explanation why an ex domain which was once registered but never linked to in any way would carry so much weight so that it ranks so much better.

• Suitshop.co.uk has more back links – 5 external backlinks and 3 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)

They both have exactly the same backlinks. Your tools are reporting different number of links. Not sure what it is you are using to check (you don’t mention), but I can guarantee you they have the same backlinks. Majestic shows suitshop.co.uk to have an extra link from here, Acorn, but thats only because it (Majestic) has not discovered the same link to suit-shop yet. No one said this is the end of the test and it’s still needs to settle but they definitely have the same links. If you know otherwise, please elaborate with source instead of just making unfounded claims.

• Suit-shop.co.uk only has has 3 external backlinks and 2 referring domains ( according to the link testing I did)

Incorrect. As above.

• One could be being penalised as they both have very similar content and if one is to be penalised it will likely be the one that Google views as the newest (see below)

Google indexed suit-shop first so if there was a penalty, it would be on suitshop.co.uk. Also, the sites are different enough not to be duplicate content. Check copyscape. Seriously... clutching at straws now.

• Suitshop.co.uk has an Alexa ranking whereas suit-shop.co.uk doesn’t – I don't know why this is but am guessing this is probably because suitshop.co.uk has been live before? (but I could be wrong) whereas suit-shop.co.uk hasn’t and alongside this adding to Google's perception of what is the newest this is another thing that could distort results from an SEO perspective .

Alexa will show rank for suit-shop.co.uk also in a few days. It not a "live" system the same way as Google is not a live system and relies on datacentres.

Now, seriously, you really seem to have a bone to pick with this. Almost to a personal level. You kept very quiet while suit-shop was wining yet now that the results are going against YOUR beliefs you are very vocal. I have lots of hyphenated domains but that does not make me blind to the obvious. You keep going on about "mis beliefs" of others while the whole industry pretty much agrees with the results of this test as representative. I.e. the results are what we expected to happen. If you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you design and carry out your own test? I will wait for it with abating breath.

 

[doodlebug]

 

[kate-brownhill]

Indeed

Mind you thats a big, big difference in page-rank.

What difference in pagerank are we talking about here?

By the way, in my opinion the test is nowhere near over. In the next few days, i expect suit-shop.co.uk to get much nearer to the first page but suitshop will win.

 

[domsaleuk]

Well, thanks for that. Its an equal test. both have holding pages. Why would you speculate one is better than the other if they both contain the same number of pages? If I add 5 more pages, will you then admit that I, and the vast majority of the SEO community are right? No? Did not think so.



Please show us some analysis or any form of evidence. Everything you write is a bit vague and never with specifics.



Please show me your evidence that suit-shop.co.uk is a “new” registration. Also, on top of that, there is absolutely no logical explanation why an ex domain which was once registered but never linked to in any way would carry so much weight so that it ranks so much better.



They both have exactly the same backlinks. Your tools are reporting different number of links. Not sure what it is you are using to check (you don’t mention), but I can guarantee you they have the same backlinks. Majestic shows suitshop.co.uk to have an extra link from here, Acorn, but thats only because it (Majestic) has not discovered the same link to suit-shop yet. No one said this is the end of the test and it’s still needs to settle but they definitely have the same links. If you know otherwise, please elaborate with source instead of just making unfounded claims.



Incorrect. As above.



Google indexed suit-shop first so if there was a penalty, it would be on suitshop.co.uk. Also, the sites are different enough not to be duplicate content. Check copyscape. Seriously... clutching at straws now.



Alexa will show rank for suit-shop.co.uk also in a few days. It not a "live" system the same way as Google is not a live system and relies on datacentres.

Now, seriously, you really seem to have a bone to pick with this. Almost to a personal level. You kept very quiet while suit-shop was wining yet now that the results are going against YOUR beliefs you are very vocal. I have lots of hyphenated domains but that does not make me blind to the obvious. You keep going on about "mis beliefs" of others while the whole industry pretty much agrees with the results of this test as representative. I.e. the results are what we expected to happen. If you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you design and carry out your own test? I will wait for it with abating breath.

To be honest I can't be bothered to answer this as if people don't want to listen they won't. I wasn't being personal at all and I apologise if you took it that way but I actually posted a very polite post saying that I thought it was good you did a test but in order to get a true idea of this a larger test would be needed.

I am an SEO specialist with approx 12 years experience in SEO and 14 in digital marketing. I have been involved in building extremely large sites including one generic domain name site that we took from very low figures to over 1 million unique users a month at one point via SEO/SEM. I often consult for major well known brands on SEO strategy and work with well known brands on an ongoing basis with regard to the implementation of SEO elements. I see the decision making process within large marketing departments first hand and have spoken at conferences about SEO.

I am trying to help domainers realise than there is more to exact match than the way they are looking at it generally and that their perception over things such as this and hyphens is not necessarily correct - I am also trying to get domainers to realise how marketing departments and the like are set to value domains.

I do not have to prove myself. The reason I am doing this is because I have my feet firmly in both the domain camp and the SEO/marketing camp and I want to see the two come closer together as I believe this is the only way that the true value of domains will be realised.

I am sorry if you took offence and I thought it was said in a previous converation that suit-shop.co.uk was a new reg so if I got that wrong that was my mistake.

 

[philiporchard]

I wonder if this thread will get to page 1 of G?

Currently Acorn at No. 31 for suit shop!

 

[kate-brownhill]

To be honest I can't be bothered to answer this as if people don't want to listen they won't. I wasn't being personal at all and I apologise if you took it that way but I actually posted a very polite post saying that I thought it was good you did a test but in order to get a true idea of this a larger test would be needed.

Listen to what? All you are giving us is your opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up with. I have changed my mind many times during my career when shown that something is true using examples, tests or statistics. You have show nothing apart from giving us some vague examples using the words “at one point” and “by my recollection” in the same one sentence. Do you seriously expect anyone to change their mind about this based on anything you have provided?

I am an SEO specialist with approx 12 years experience in SEO and 14 in digital marketing. I have been involved in building extremely large sites including one generic domain name site that we took from very low figures to over 1 million unique users a month at one point via SEO/SEM. I often consult for major well known brands on SEO strategy and work with well known brands on an ongoing basis with regard to the implementation of SEO elements. I see the decision making process within large marketing departments first hand and have spoken at conferences about SEO.

Well done.

I am trying to help domainers realise than there is more to exact match than the way they are looking at it generally and that their perception over things such as this and hyphens is not necessarily correct - I am also trying to get domainers to realise how marketing departments and the like are set to value domains.

How exactly are you doing that? If you are so concerned with this, why not take the time you spent in designing your own 100% water tight test? I am sure that for someone with of your experience it will be extremely simple.

I do not have to prove myself. The reason I am doing this is because I have my feet firmly in both the domain camp and the SEO/marketing camp and I want to see the two come closer together as I believe this is the only way that the true value of domains will be realised.

Well, it’s a nice thought and im all for it but however good intentioned your motives are, it does not mean you can make such fundamental claims to the way we look at EMDs and the reasons behind those conceptions without some proof or solid examples. To be honest, in my experience, this EMD effect has been so clear cut, it really does place some doubt in my mind on the amount of SEO experience you have. We are talking about a clear and still powerful effect which I have seen regularly and consistently with all EMDs I worked on yet you claim it’s just a mis belief? Really? No, you don’t have to prove yourself when making claims, but anyone with even an ounce of brain would require it before accepting it as true so if your real aim here is to change people’s minds for the good of the industry, then start showing some structured arguments to that effect otherwise, it’s just good plain hot air and we get enough of that already from our politicians.

I am sorry if you took offence and I thought it was said in a previous converation that suit-shop.co.uk was a new reg so if I got that wrong that was my mistake.

I take offence not by your actions but by the fact that you have not bothered to bring anything concrete to the table apart from incorrect accusations and flawed dismissals of the test I carried out. If you addressed the test with solid reasons why it may be flawed (and i am well aware it is not perfect) to make the results completely unreliable then I would take it much better. Or, in the very least, I would have more respect to your opinion if you actually bothered to do this yourself as it is you that is going around the forum telling everyone EMD are all a misconception.

 

[PoshTiger]

Well thanks to Kate for offering her time and energy for this thread.

 

[Blossom]

I don't agree with a lot of what Kate says, but I think she's right on this one.

Even if the experiment was completely flawless, I don't think the end result would be much different.