Domainlore blog

[stitchbob]

As somebody who has dealt with this, I can clarify:

* All domains caught through HC automatically go to auction, whether an existing backorder is in place or not.
* If there are no bids, the catcher keeps the domain at the reg fee, Rob takes no cut.
* If there are bids, the catcher has to bid the same as everybody else.
* The revenue share is identical regardless of who wins the auction.

Yes, that means that if I catch a domain I actually want, I get a share of the final price back. But I also used my quota to catch it in the first place, and I probably didn't want it to go to auction.

Nobody is going to prebid to set a reserve, because that would be pointless - if there are no bids, I get it for free anyway.

If I believe a domain is worth £500, then yes, I can bid that. If I'm wrong, I win the auction and Rob gets his cut. I now have a domain which has cost me the reg fee plus Robs cut, and which I still have to develop or sell.

I wasn't entirely happy with the forced auction process at first precisely because it forces me to compete for domains I want. I've personally lost at auction for a couple of domains I caught for myself. However, I believe there's a lot of value in a quick sale, so if a domain I catch gets bids, I normally just let it ride - I'll only bid myself if I have a specific use in mind.

 

[dropsnatcher]

As somebody who has dealt with this, I can clarify:

* All domains caught through HC automatically go to auction, whether an existing backorder is in place or not.
* If there are no bids, the catcher keeps the domain at the reg fee, Rob takes no cut.
* If there are bids, the catcher has to bid the same as everybody else.
* The revenue share is identical regardless of who wins the auction.

Yes, that means that if I catch a domain I actually want, I get a share of the final price back. But I also used my quota to catch it in the first place, and I probably didn't want it to go to auction.

Nobody is going to prebid to set a reserve, because that would be pointless - if there are no bids, I get it for free anyway.

If I believe a domain is worth £500, then yes, I can bid that. If I'm wrong, I win the auction and Rob gets his cut. I now have a domain which has cost me the reg fee plus Robs cut, and which I still have to develop or sell.

I wasn't entirely happy with the forced auction process at first precisely because it forces me to compete for domains I want. I've personally lost at auction for a couple of domains I caught for myself. However, I believe there's a lot of value in a quick sale, so if a domain I catch gets bids, I normally just let it ride - I'll only bid myself if I have a specific use in mind.

interesting so you lost auctions for domains caught but did not win when bidding, the opposite of what rob said. ultimately allowing catchers to bid on their own names is beyond corrupt, it only takes the owner to bid it up to the point where actually they like the idea of selling and suddenly the other bidder has effectively been bidding against a shill even if that was not the original intent.

where you forced to send all domains to auction? it seems some remain on the old system of £5 a catch and are basically getting nothing much. probably because when the dac is not used rob is stealing (yes stealing) their dac for his own pooled checks and if taking a step further using his customers epp creates to register domains for himself which seems to be happening, are customers of his old system happy with that?

 

[DJ]

@stitchbob thanks for the reply. I am not a fan of Denys at all, he (unfairly in my opinion) banned me from domainlore for questioning a fee, but I won't go into that now. Rob does come across like a nice and approachable guy.

Regardless of all the points you make. I still feel that it should be made clear when the catcher is bidding on a domain that he/she has a vested and financial interest in. It wouldn't be that difficult to put a symbol (like the thumbs up) next to the bidders name or simply a line stating 'this name was caught by user 3453'. The current setup, to me, certainly seems a bit underhand and I'm sure it wasn't intended.

@RobM are you able to disclose if a catcher is bidding on a name if requested. I want to bid on a name that ends today but have been put off by this?

Just to clarify I am not pointing any fingers at anyone or suggesting that this is a massive problem which all catchers are taking advantage off. I just feel that now it is public knowledge a bit more transparency is required.

Cheers!

 

[super-whois]

Are auctions regulated in Malta?

 

[PoshTiger]

for those on rob/stitchbob/3gmedia system without a profit share and having no luck registering names, make notes of your actual chasing times over a week and then cos you do not have access to log info on his system, ask nominet for them, you might find your dac is being used when you are not

Can confirm this - when I moved hosts a little while ago, I obvs got a new IP that kept getting blocked when I was't chasing.

There's no authentication on DAC connections - only EPP, looks like someone has been cheating big time.

Going to call Nominet with the IP and dates this morning to see if they have logged who had that IP assigned in their DAC settings...

 

[davedevelopment]

It's not about money, I don't rely on catching for anything, I have a great job - it's always been about the race for me.. Competing with people that know nothing about the process or what's actually going on is lame.

I miss the fun of the chase, I can't compete any more and I'm thinking about hanging up my boots! I haven't been on AD for a while, but saw the DL blog post and came here to see what was going on. I don't think anyone is at fault here, other than nominet, they set the rules and it's up to them to enforce them. Everyone else is just playing the game.

 

[stitchbob]

interesting so you lost auctions for domains caught but did not win when bidding, the opposite of what rob said.

Not quite. To clarify, I've caught domains for myself which have subsequently sold during the auction process rather than dropping to me for free when they didn't sell.

I'll drop in a few stats here for context. I've caught 102 domains using the current system, of which 37 have sold at auction. The other 65 are all personal catches which dropped to me after failing to sell - so about 2/3rds of my catches are for personal use and don't end up selling.

Of the 37 that sold, only 2 were personal catches which took bids during the auction process. One of those I would have considered bidding on, but I didn't realise it had a bid until after the auction ended. The other, I decided a quick sale was worth more than adding it to my portfolio, so I let it ride. For the record, one domain sold for £50, the other for £75, and I didn't bid on either.

I haven't personally caught any backordered domains that I'd have an interest in bidding on myself. After all, most of us are in this business to sell, and the best time to sell a fresh catch is often immediately after the drop when people are watching what happened to it. Therefore, it makes sense to take the auction price when interest is at its peak.

 

[stitchbob]

EDIT: Deleted double post

 

[Ben Thomas]

and the best time to sell a fresh catch is often immediately after the drop when people are watching what happened to it. Therefore, it makes sense to take the auction price when interest is at its peak.

I actually don't agree with that, I think on some occasions it's better to let it sit for a couple of months whilst people forget about it and then auction it and peoples interest is peaked again. Immediately after they fail to catch a domain, they're probably a bit depressed about it and if they see someone else has it at auction I feel like they'd be less inclined to bid at that time, lol.

But indeed, we are all here to make money - no question about that.

 

[stitchbob]

I actually don't agree with that, I think on some occasions it's better to let it sit for a couple of months whilst people forget about it and then auction it and peoples interest is peaked again. Immediately after they fail to catch a domain, they're probably a bit depressed about it and if they see someone else has it at auction I feel like they'd be less inclined to bid at that time, lol.

Maybe, but how much extra are you willing to pay to let it sit for a few months? I'm not going to disclose the revenue share Rob uses because I haven't seen anybody else do so, but to take the previously quoted 60/40 used by Denys, you're going to have to bid on it yourself, then pay 40% of the final price just so that you can *not* sell it. That's quite a premium if your goal is to sell it anyway.

 

[Ben Thomas]

Oh, sorry Stitchbob, I was talking in general. That's my bad for going off-topic. But yeah, perhaps inside HC it's a little different and I do agree that in some cases it's better to get a quick flip now rather than "hedge your bets" as it were, hoping for the re-up later on.

 

[Darren]

Maybe, but how much extra are you willing to pay to let it sit for a few months? I'm not going to disclose the revenue share Rob uses because I haven't seen anybody else do so, but to take the previously quoted 60/40 used by Denys, you're going to have to bid on it yourself, then pay 40% of the final price just so that you can *not* sell it. That's quite a premium if your goal is to sell it anyway.

That is the problem with the auction model right there, you are automatically getting a "60%" discount on the sale price, which allows you to bid up the name higher than it would have probably gone. Bidders need to be made aware of this.

I have heard the revenue split could be 70/30 in favour of the registrant.

 

[Ben Thomas]

I agree that there should be a little more transparency on the auctions that are caught for personal registrations, just so people can make a choice whether to bid on them or not and if something fishy happens we at least can see what the problem might be. 60/40 or 70/30 I think one thing stands out and that is the fact that Rob puts his users (both of Hosted Chasing and bidders) first.

 

[stitchbob]

You'll be happy with this email I just received from Rob then:

It seems that no matter what I decide to do, accusations of cheating and shill bidding are going to fly at the platform.

As such I am having to take the unfortunate decision of address how people bid on their own domains.
1) If you bid on your own domain and lose you don't get a percentage of the sale at the end
2) If you bid on your own domain and win you pay the full amount - just like anyone else would.

So there you go. The person who uses their quota to catch a domain no longer gets any advantage whatsoever for doing so if it happens to be a domain they wanted - Rob takes 100% of the sale price for any domains where the catcher places a bid.

Fair enough?

 

[Ben Thomas]

Brutally fair, yes. I personally have no issue with people making money off their own catches, they used their quota - why shouldn't they be discounted? I think what most people are griping about is the transparency of it (or the lack of it). I think it would be much more useful to have a label next to auctions in the caught section, letting bidders know if it was a backorder from Joe Public, or if it's a personal domain by a HC user.

 

[dropsnatcher]

You'll be happy with this email I just received from Rob then:



So there you go. The person who uses their quota to catch a domain no longer gets any advantage whatsoever for doing so if it happens to be a domain they wanted - Rob takes 100% of the sale price for any domains where the catcher places a bid.

Fair enough?

only rob could find a way of making it fairer whilst making sure he now gets a bigger cut, if you want it but lose you lose, if you want it and win you lose

anyway all this just takes away from the very fact that rob is still using dac quota of his 5gbp without them knowing to register so many domains on his tag and i hope nominet investigate this and ban him

 

[PoshTiger]

anyway all this just takes away from the very fact that rob is still using dac quota of his 5gbp without them knowing to register so many domains on his tag and i hope nominet investigate this and ban him

I wonder how many calls to Nominet are going to happen today..

 

[Darren]

only rob could find a way of making it fairer whilst making sure he now gets a bigger cut, if you want it but lose you lose, if you want it and win you lose

anyway all this just takes away from the very fact that rob is still using dac quota of his 5gbp without them knowing to register so many domains on his tag and i hope nominet investigate this and ban him

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Rob is using his clients DAC quota.

 

[PoshTiger]

Do you have proof of that or are you just assuming?

I have proof that a specific IP was used in December - should be easy for Nominet to tally it up..

 

[Ben Thomas]

nothing here