Domainlore blog

[Siusaidh]

My take when it comes to drop-catching is that it's a chancer's game. Most of us here are chancers and I agree with Posh Tiger that the chase is part of the enjoyment and you utilise whatever the opportunities are, so for example, I've had good dealing with Denys, and Rob, and the just cited melitaweb, and I have no quarrel. The game is here to be played.

What I take exception with is if the people who run the DNS don't stick to their own rules and policies. No accusations. I'm just saying that the UK's domains (for example) are hugely important to our economy, to our social system, to individuals, to communities. It's got to be run in the best interests of all these groups, and it's got to be run with fair access, and with policies which are not informally flexible (like letting big Registrars mass-register without registrant consent last June).

I like the chase, the hunt, the poacher's game etc as much as the next person. But I think auctions direct for dropping names is the fairest way to administer the DNS, and most certainly better than the system as it stands today. I just want fairness for the public. Let's face it, the UK's DNS does not exist for us, and a small band of domain hunters.

 

[timter51]

The vast majority of quality domains will still end up in the hands of the wealthy domain investors who will stockpile, just like what happens now. I'm struggling to see how auctions fixes anything. If you want totally fair than a lottery system is all I can think of.

 

[webber]

The vast majority of quality domains will still end up in the hands of the wealthy domain investors who will stockpile, just like what happens now.

Not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the earnings go to a charity for example.

If you want totally fair than a lottery system is all I can think of.

That will be a lot easier to abuse with fake accounts!

 

[timter51]

That will be a lot easier to abuse with fake accounts!

In this world of KYC, it really should not be difficult for Nominet to avoid that. If you want to take part in the lottery, verify yourself.

 

[webber]

In this world of KYC, it really should not be difficult for Nominet to avoid that.

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

 

[timter51]

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

Well yeah, I'm just saying that the only fair way is a legitimate lottery. The fact that it needs to be run properly is a given.

 

[Gill]

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

They’re not fake, they’re probably real people and okay you prove a link to two addresses but that link is purely circumstantial no matter how strong. People are gaming a broken system and as one devious underhanded member of this forum once advised, if you can’t beat them join them. I don’t blame Rob or his customers for this, I blame Nominet who have second rate systems and rules that are unenforceable.

I used to live in a village with a population of 900 and it turns out that so did someone called Antony Wright, who was also a Nominet member and drop catcher. He lived on the next street to me but I have never met him in my life so you need to be careful before jumping to conclusions

 

[webber]

Well yeah, I'm just saying that the only fair way is a legitimate lottery.

Fair doesn't mean equal prices, but equal opportunity to purchase

 

[WalkinDude]

Still not convinced theres a story here. Dropcatchers catch for themselves.

Inherent conflict of interest. No your dropcatcher isnt gonna for free grab that 100k domain you are after as opposed to keep it for themselves.

Lots of techno stuff. Nominet is useless as per. Grumble grumble grumble.

Same dynamics as politics in this country. Lots of moaning not enough enterprise or solutions.

Newbie domainers in particular shouldnt be put off. Acorn, Domainlore, Backorder are your salvation as a domainer not your enemy. Grow big enough and then compete with them.

 

[Ben Thomas]

nothing here

 

[stitchbob]

I am also a user of Robs service, and can confirm that it still is not the case that he tells us what to chase in any way. What he does do is share the list of backorders he has - i.e. those which are guaranteed a quick sale if we catch them. Denys does exactly the same with the “advance bids on deleting domains” tab on his site.

 

[dropsnatcher]

for those on rob/stitchbob/3gmedia system without a profit share and having no luck registering names, make notes of your actual chasing times over a week and then cos you do not have access to log info on his system, ask nominet for them, you might find your dac is being used when you are not

 

[Ben Thomas]

for those on rob/stitchbob/3gmedia system without a profit share and having no luck registering names, make notes of your actual chasing times over a week and then cos you do not have access to log info on his system, ask nominet for them, you might find your dac is being used when you are not

The thing is though, is that everybody makes money. I highly doubt there are users on Hosted Chasing that earn £0 a month, it's extremely improbable that someone would allow their quota to be used up daily with no benefit, let's be honest? Also, that isn't how it works - it's really just luck. However, I do think that Rob knows the ins and outs of the DAC and has written some extremely capable code all within the limits of Nominet, which should be rewarded in my opinion. He has the best service out there at the moment and people just don't like that.

(Disclaimer: I will say that although I have used Hosted Chasing in the past, I am in no way affiliated with it and no longer use it anymore. My interests lay within my own projects, but I do believe the service is extremely capable and urge people to see it for what it is - a really good way of catching domains. Which is exactly what DomainLore and other places have been doing wayyyyy before Hosted Chasing was "a thing".)

 

[stitchbob]

You can check you quota usage easily on the DAC. I have a monitor tracking my usage and I’m quite happy that isn’t being used when I’m not chasing anything.

 

[Ben Thomas]

You can check you quota usage easily on the DAC. I have a monitor tracking my usage and I’m quite happy that isn’t being used when I’m not chasing anything.

I agree, I used Hosted Chasing for around 2 months before moving on to my own project and my DAC was not being used when I wasn't chasing and that's factual.

 

[DJ]

So am I right that the person who caught the domain can then bid on it?

I know Rob said that each time they have won they have paid but surely they are receiving a percentage of the final sale price? They obviously then have a massive incentive to bid on a domain that they feel is being undersold or that they could sell for more elsewhere. Effectively they can set a reserve price by bidding?

I really think there should be a bit more transparency or a disclaimer advising other bidders that the catcher/seller is bidding on the domain they caught.

Rob I am currently bidding on a caught Domain, is there anyway I can find out it the catcher is bidding on it?

 

[Ben Thomas]

No, I don't think it works like this. But even so, if the catcher is bidding on it they are bidding because they genuinely want it. You can use Hosted Chasing to catch domains for yourself, because if you are using Hosted Chasing you can't take your quota elsewhere (I mean technically you COULD but..) because you're spending quota chasing domains at Hosted Chasing and you want to have as much quota available, so there's no point using a separate system for your personal catches and you don't pay anything but the registration fee. BUT, if you want to keep the domain for yourself you must bid on it like any other bidder, which is only fair, isn't it? If you win the domain, you don't get a percentage of the money you pay for it, because that would be ridiculous. You pay UKBackorder the money just like any other person (I would imagine). I believe you can also backorder domains art £1000 to avoid auction entirely.

But if a person is shill bidding their own domain, it can backfire and they end up having to pay for it themselves... so there really isn't a point unless they really want the domain name ... in which case, they can be seen as any other bidder.

 

[DJ]

I think you are missing the point that they are receiving a percentage of the sale price putting every other bidder at an unfair advantage.

Furthermore, should they decide that they believe a domain is worth £500 through other selling sites or to an end user. They simply bid £500 and it effectively sets a reserve price. If the domain then only sells for £100 they effectively get it for £40 (if Denys 40/60 split is accurate) and then they are free to sell elsewhere.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if it was transparent.

 

[DJ]

Furthermore, I would be interested to know if hosted catchers can put a backorder on a domain insuring that it will end up at auction if backordered by only 1 person?

 

[Ben Thomas]

As far as I'm aware, every domain caught at Hosted Chasing (bar £1000 backorders) is placed in an auction, whether caught for personal use or from the backorder list. I'm sorry I missed your point, I'm unable to answer that as I was never placed in that position. Catchers do receive a percentage from every sale, but I presume that there is a different system in place for domains caught or won for personal use, but I would imagine there would be some sort of discount. But it appears there could be a grey area there, I agree. Whether or not it should be transparent, I don't know. I suppose if the domain goes to a public auction, it should be noted whether it is a personal catch or a backorder. Perhaps that would help?