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Discussion in 'The Bar' started by PoshTiger, Jan 15, 2020.

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  1. wizard

    wizard Well-Known Member

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    no as far as they told me they had not planned anything as wanted feedback that was it ....
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Siusaidh United Kingdom

    Siusaidh Active Member

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    You're right - it's still all to play for. Kelly and James may well be inclined to push for set ups which favour the larger registrars - maybe models like James's at Go Daddy, auctioning expiring domains before the drop, or maybe some kind of RoR-type model, where money and scale buy you better access. David obviously knows drop-catching inside out, but does he still have any allegiance to the traditional script-catching approach? Who has the most powerful influence in the corporate decision-making? You'd have to suppose the bigger Registrars and their revenue streams. Personally I have found Nick W-S really open and accessible, but also a realist and pragmatist. My reasoning would suggest that Kelly and James may push the Board towards one of the two options that are good for GoDaddy and Namesco, because why wouldn't they. That depends on them.

    Of course, it could all be worked out already, with the Consultation process just a front for PR's sake (as is often the case) but I don't read it that way. That consultation was, by report, disappointing and poorly attended, the survey responses also. I was booked to attend the round-table but I had serious health issues going on that week, so I've been working in my own way since then. I believe they are genuinely reviewing competing options, and it will I suspect depend on which voices swing the board. My paper outlining the auction model in detail will be on the table, so they promise (unless of course they are lying). I don't believe they are. In dialogue, I know they 'get' the arguments and advantages for auctioning dropping domains - and I'm impressed by that, they've thought it through (at least some of them) - but there will be other, more influential voices in the room. Name-catchers get bad rep, on alleged charges of warehousing and cyber squatting, and generally there's little sympathy I suspect.

    Nominet just want a working market that supplies domain names as thoroughly (and ideally simply) as possible. They don't want hassle. They want profit. Obviously. The question is: do they need the status quo as it operates at present? Internecine quarrels between name-catchers and their distributors, and time spent responding to quarrels and complaints hardly help those who want name-catching to prosper. It would be great if Anne T who posted here a couple of times (before her election, and at the time of the consultation) would care to come online and set out the situation, the process for decision-making, the likely timing of decisions, and the main options being considered.

    Also, are there conflicts of interest that ought to be raised, when board members are also key members of large registrars. It makes sense that their input can be useful, and I get that, but when decisions that could benefit their own companies are involved, do they get to disengage themselves from the decision-making process? I've seen the same symbiotic relationship between Registries and registrars operating in the ICANN context, and how that can go badly wrong, and given that this is the UK's DNS we are talking about - vital for national infrastructure and communities - the highest levels of good practice and transparent process should be followed. Really this should be monitored by government department, but we all know that most people just don't care as long as they can log on and the websites resolve for them. As Wizard mentioned, few followed his (?) example and bothered to attend the consultation, and if even people affected by the decision don't show up, why should we expect anyone else to raise questions really?

    For the past 20 years of participation in ICANN's processes and debates, I've seen how a "laissez-faire" attitude prevails, and enforcement/regulation is slack (and slack for a reason - it benefits those with the most vested interest that it should be that way). We saw it with the banks before the 2008 mayhem. Right now, Nominet takes a fairly hands-off approach in issues like those being discussed in this thread. The big Registrars wanted to mass-register .uk domains last June. Nominet did not resist. There were arguments (or cover) for taking that decision. A handful of name catchers squabble over how names are getting caught. I'm not saying Nominet just turns a blind eye, but they are reluctant generally to get drawn in. Laissez-faire means, providing the main revenue streams keep flowing, and benefit everyone in the big tents, a little gaming of systems here and there hardly matters. In fact, that flexibility often benefits the financially strongest at the expense of those who play by the rules more pedantically.

    I guess I am a pedant. I want a fairer system, and fairer access for more people. Experience over 20 years, on the wider platform beyond just the UK, has taught me that the domain industry tends to be pretty wild west (which can sometimes be fun) but the big players generally benefit the most. I guess I like the name catching community because of the way guile, and skill, and watchfulness, and cunning sometimes buck the system. And just the love of the chase. However, what I dislike is when name catching becomes dominated by a small number of registrars/catchers. At that point it becomes so annoying, because they can carve out their benefit, but so many other people get marginalised and don't get access. That's why I prefer the idea of auction (I don't believe lottery is a starter - I haven't seen any working models elsewhere - how would it even work... every single dropping name in the lottery? Just ones people bid on?). I think straightforward auction is the simplest supply-and-demand solution. Anyone can bid. The wealthy, of course, will be able to bid more, until a name finds its market price. But that happens anyway, when names get auctioned later.

    What Nominet needs is the simplest process to derive the optimal revenue, while being seen to offer access to process that is fair.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  4. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Member

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    Didn't domainlore used to let domain catchers bid on their own names when they first started? Someone said Denys changed it after people complained about the same issue.
     
  5. 3gmedia United Kingdom

    3gmedia Active Member

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    Could we see Nominet copying the .co model, let the not so good names drop and hold back the premium names with a tiered pricing structure for the best of the premium names.

    Who knows how this will turn out. :cool:

    https://www.go.co/premium-names/
     
  6. Gill United Kingdom

    Gill Active Member

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    Does anyone think that killing drop catching could actually benefit the secondary market by reducing the number of new domains entering the hands of resellers.

    A combination of the RoR, these big drops, DomainLore and UKBackOrder have put the market on it's knees. The market is depressed because of over capacity and if it was oil or some other commodity they'd be limiting how much product came to market. Maybe killing drop catching will do that?
     
  7. Siusaidh United Kingdom

    Siusaidh Active Member

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    This is the outcome I especially don't want. It wouldn't just mean paying more for new premium word registrations. Predictably, the premium would then be charged each time after that you needed to renew.

    With the auction model, you pay a once off market price, then it's effectively yours for keeps, to renew at basement price each year... the Estonian model.
     
  8. webber United Kingdom

    webber Active Member

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    I joined this forum rather enthusiastically and pitched my thoughts to this topic thinking it's a genuine discussion, but it's actually a pity rivalry between two platforms and their clients
     
  9. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This whole industry is a rivalry. Welcome aboard.
     
  10. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Member

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    No one's going to die, don't worry no need to call netflix and ask for a film crew. Couple of people get things out of their system and life goes on.
     
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  11. Siusaidh United Kingdom

    Siusaidh Active Member

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    Stay with us, Ciprian. This is mostly a very friendly place with plenty of decent people and lots of experience. This is the internet, so of course there will be occasional flare ups, but all in all this is a helpful and at times informative forum. As LCHappy (Lisa) says, life just goes on. I have been very much helped by people on this forum and have been shown a lot of generosity. Being human beings, we can all get tetchy at times, but it's good to meet other people with similar interests, and all the fun and cunning and occasional triumphs of getting domains.

    You have some nice domains on your own list, including romantic.uk

    Good luck in the next week or two - there are plenty of good catches coming up!
     
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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  12. dropsnatcher United Kingdom

    dropsnatcher Member

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    Serious is someone taking the piss, new tag of the day, Jake Waller [Tag = KUNGFUJAKE], gone straight to ukbackorder auctions even though the nameservers are blank. i am startled at just how many new tags are appearing and all seem to have found robs system and had him agree to a profit share on instant auction yet me and others who used his system for years ask and he will not give us this deal. rob needs to explain himself
     
  13. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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    KUNGFUJAKE is a bit of a piss take!
     
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  14. Whois-Search United Kingdom

    Whois-Search Well-Known Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2020 at 2:17 PM
  15. PoshTiger United Kingdom

    PoshTiger Well-Known Member

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    And why do you think they're dumping the domains as soon as they get them?

    They're breaking the rules and they know it - and so does Rob!!
     
  16. DJ Wood United Kingdom

    DJ Wood Active Member

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    I have my suspicions that the name I was bidding on yesterday was eventually bought by the catcher - but sadly we will never know for sure due to the lack of transparency.

    Obviously I am aware that I may be wrong and I might be pointing the finger unfairly, but due to my concerns I didn't bid as much as I wanted to, so the original catcher (and Rob) have lost revenue while it has also left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Obviously all of the above would be resolved with some simple transparency. I am sure the catchers would rather be revealed if they are bidding on a name than losing their revenue for doing so?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  17. WalkinDude United Kingdom

    WalkinDude Active Member

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    The domains on these platforms are attractively priced hence their success. They are the survivors of many attempts to get auction systems off the ground.

    You can bet your house every dreamer tried to get the moral domaining utopia off the ground and what we are left with are the most resilient system anyone can make work at this time and the process evolves every year as in any industry.

    Platform owners gaming their position and raking in off the data we provide isnt news on the internet. Anywhere.

    There is no way in hell as in it would have to raining 100 dollar bills on Pluto and I still wouldnt let a rival business or its fans or other vested parties interfere with my business, making moralistic accusations etc

    They are not interfering cos they wanna help your business are they?

    Out in the real world all I hear is the good old days talk. When you could park anywhere. When you didnt need be a millionaire to own a house or fill in 50 forms to buy a toothbrush.

    Carry on and the will sanitize domaining out of existence. It will be over.
     
  18. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    I agree, totally taking the piss!! Rob wouldn't let me join either :p
     
  19. webber United Kingdom

    webber Active Member

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  20. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The thing is, is that even if Rob isn't colluding with his HC users to catch 24/7 at good speeds (which I don't think he is) the sheer volume of tags using his system now makes his chances extremely high. So you know, what he's doing isn't really "illegal", it's just a really good way to catch domains. And no wonder more people are signing up to it, 70/30 splits in your favour and use of the most refined drop catching software in the industry for free?
     
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  21. Lovekraft United Kingdom

    Lovekraft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well I was on Rob's system for about 6 weeks late last year and barely caught anything unfortunately, however the same group of tags kept catching multiple prebooked domains every single day. I caught maybe one or two prebooked domains at the most over a 6 week period. I just put it down to bad luck and to be fair I did have a lot of that because you could almost guarantee the first domain on my catch list wouldn't drop until the end of the day! There does seem to be a lot of new tags on there recently who have never introduced themselves, I'm really not sure what's going on there. Anyway I thanked Rob for letting me use his system and left it after it wasn't as successful for me as it has been for others.
     
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