Domainlore blog

BREWSTERS · Jan 15, 2020

Mark Walker said:
I just signed up here today because I've seen my name and my tag published on the Domainlore blog and would love to clear my name

1. I'm not fake or a sock puppet account, anyone wishing to verify this can meet me in my local pub and buy me a beer (I believe I've already dealt with quite a few members in here whether it has been purchasing or selling domains)
2. I'm not a shill bidder and I don't work / collude with, or for Robert. I'm a paying customer of his software and have been for some time. I've never been asked or told to catch anything in particular
3. Robert has been nothing but professional and I have never experienced anything untoward in our communications or dealings

Hope this is useful to anyone wondering, and hopefully Denys will remove my name from the domainlore blog post

Welcome Mark!

Out of interest, are you a member on Domainlore too? That could help square things up.

Gill · Jan 15, 2020

I wonder how many people that sign up to any hosted solution really understand just how much trust and power you give to the owner of the system. We run a hosted solution and some of the things we could do IF we wanted are ...

1. Steal every domain on that persons tag
2. Use part of their DAC and Time Delayed DAC quota without their knowledge
3. Create a delay when a name drops so that the odds are loaded in the favour of certain tags

You can't stop the cheating and I believe that few if any of the hosted solutions are working within Nominet's T&C's. This bun fight is about greed and I hope that Nominet are monitoring this thread and finally realise that they need to kill drop catching.

dee · Jan 15, 2020

Gill said:
This bun fight is about greed and I hope that Nominet are monitoring this thread and finally realising how they need to kill drop catching.

But replacing with what ? There will always be a demand for decent domains

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

Trauiner said:
Doesn't that just mean those 5 or so tags are trying to catch more domains than other users?

If I try and catch 5 premium domains and those other tags try and catch 5,000 premium domains, they're always going to come out ahead.

Feels like you may have jumped to a conclusion there when they could be alternative reasons. Not saying that is the reason above, but a possibility.

I have the data - along with around a decade of catching history - I pretty much know which chasers will be going for the premium domains - around 40-50 for any given domain

I'm only talking about premium domains which is all I go for - the number of catches from a few tags doesn't make sense where other tags on his system appear to get nothing.

Trauiner said:
Both ways of handling it opens itself to abuse. I guess there are always pros and cons to everything.

Making something harder to due purely because you want to limit who can make money, is just as abusive. "I'm not catching enough high-quality domains and not making as much money, so the best course of action is to make it harder for people to catch them, unless they're skilled, so I can come out ahead."

It's not about making it harder to do - it's as hard as it's ever been... It's just far too easy for people who know nothing at all to do something that's technically difficult.

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

Gill said:
I wonder how many people that sign up to any hosted solution really understand just how much trust and power you give to the owner of the system. We run a hosted solution and some of the things we could do IF we wanted are ...

1. Steal every domain on that persons tag
2. Use part of their DAC and Time Delayed DAC quota without their knowledge
3. Create a delay when a name drops so that the odds are loaded in the favour of certain tags

You can't stop the cheating and I believe that few if any of the hosted solutions are working within Nominet's T&C's. This bun fight is about greed and I hope that Nominet are monitoring this thread and finally realise that they need to kill drop catching.

Agree with this....

another one..

Aggregate all the hosted DAC checks and send your EPP request first...

Gill · Jan 15, 2020

dee said:
But replacing with what ? There will always be a demand for decent domains

There's lots of complicated solutions but by the far the simplest is to scrap the DAC, allocate EPP requests based on the number of domains on a tag and then release domains randomly over a 30 day period rather than a known day.

armistice · Jan 15, 2020

PoshTiger said:
Agree with this....

another one..

Aggregate all the hosted DAC checks and send your EPP request first...

another one:
Time all the hosted dac checks across the day to ensure you have complete coverage with the minimum time between checks

dee · Jan 15, 2020

I have the data - along with around a decade of catching history - I pretty much know which chasers will be going for the premium domains - around 40-50 for any given domain

Question....how can you tell who else is after a domain other than the person who eventually catches it ? That implies you would have access to nominet requests ? Is that publicly available ?

PoshTiger said:
Agree with this....

another one..

Aggregate all the hosted DAC checks and send your EPP request first

Irrelevant in a random drop isnt it ? Surely it could be anyone in the request line ?

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

Gill said:
There's lots of complicated solutions but by the far the simplest is to scrap the DAC, allocate EPP requests based on the number of domains on a tag and then release domains randomly over a 30 day period rather than a known day.

Nah - just change the rules and give it to a few big boys like what's done in the US and be done with it...

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

dee said:
Question....how can you tell who else is after a domain other than the person who eventually catches it ? That implies you would have access to nominet requests ? Is that publicly available ?

Irrelevant in a random drop isnt it ? Surely it could be anyone in the request line ?

the first across the line...

Gill · Jan 15, 2020

PoshTiger said:
Nah - just change the rules and give it to a few big boys like what's done in the US and be done with it...

The random 30 day drop kills it for everyone.

Theres not enough money in .uk to interest the big boys and despite the illogical rants you see on here from time to time, the big UK hosting companies have never shown any interest in drop catching (save for DomainMonster who aren't competitive) even there was a lot of money involved.

webber · Jan 15, 2020

PoshTiger said:
I don't like Nominet allowing people to use hosted systems at all. It enables people with no knowledge or hard work make money with a tiny financial outlay.. I for one would be delighted if Nominet changed their terms and let the people with the best ability catch the best domains.

Having hosted platforms opens up all kinds of potential abuse..

These hosted platforms help new people get in the "industry" a lot easier, lowering the barrier to entry and allowing them to test the waters before moving or investing in something more advanced.
This makes for a fair market in my opinion. But yes, there is potential for abuse...

Mark Walker · Jan 15, 2020

BREWSTERS said:
Welcome Mark!

Out of interest, are you a member on Domainlore too? That could help square things up.

Thanks! I am indeed, have been for almost 3 years. I do some buying and selling there.

dropsnatcher · Jan 15, 2020

Mark Walker said:
I just signed up here today because I've seen my name and my tag published on the Domainlore blog and would love to clear my name

1. I'm not fake or a sock puppet account, anyone wishing to verify this can meet me in my local pub and buy me a beer (I believe I've already dealt with quite a few members in here whether it has been purchasing or selling domains)
2. I'm not a shill bidder and I don't work / collude with, or for Robert. I'm a paying customer of his software and have been for some time. I've never been asked or told to catch anything in particular
3. Robert has been nothing but professional and I have never experienced anything untoward in our communications or dealings

Hope this is useful to anyone wondering, and hopefully Denys will remove my name from the domainlore blog post

mark walker (MWALKER), same mark walker as voyager digital (VOYAGERDIGITAL)? both actively registering
ppm.uk VOYAGERDIGITAL 29/12/2019 now on MELITAWEB
oxy.uk VOYAGERDIGITAL 29/12/2019now on MELITAWEB

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

Trauiner said:
I'm not sure I understand your point on that side of things. Why should something not be made easier to use by the masses, even if it's a technically difficult thing at the core?

Your only point seems to be greed-based unless I'm missing your point. Fewer people who can do it equals more opportunities for you?

Hosting is technically difficult but is made extremely easy to use for a few bucks a month? Should that be stopped so only more technically knowledged people can build websites to rank in Google to make $$$?

I think you're missing the point then...

I'd prefer it that the 4/5 guys that really know what they're doing caught the good domains based on their technical ability, nothing else..

It's not about money, I don't rely on catching for anything, I have a great job - it's always been about the race for me.. Competing with people that know nothing about the process or what's actually going on is lame.

Do you still even have to do the online test to get DAC access?

Gill · Jan 15, 2020

webber said:
These hosted platforms help new people get in the "industry" a lot easier, lowering the barrier to entry and allowing them to test the waters before moving or investing in something more advanced..

With respect, in the real World you would need to ...

1. Either be able to code or have a huge budget to pay someone to code for you
2. Analyse Nominet's systems and hopefully understand its shortcomings and then if my experience is anything to go by, spend months constantly tweaking algorithms to simply keep up.

Yes, at face value hosted catching gives everybody a chance but the reality is it's become an opportunity for a tiny number of people to exploit those who want a slice of the pie but lack the skills to achieve it.

webber said:
1. There would be the tag change email notification the tag holder gets and an obvious trail in Nominet's systems

I don't know if the thread is still live on here but search for oyster.co.uk, there's a cautionary tale for those using a hosted solution.

webber said:
3. If that would be the case it will soon be obvious and they will go searching for another provider

Can you point me to the successful ones? Do you know what names my system caught last month?

Like I said at the outset, the whole system is being run for the benefit of maybe 5 or 6 people - myself included. It was never fit for purpose but there's now a race to the bottom and it needs a drastic solution.

ukdomains · Jan 15, 2020

Gill said:
There's lots of complicated solutions but by the far the simplest is to scrap the DAC, allocate EPP requests based on the number of domains on a tag and then release domains randomly over a 30 day period rather than a known day.

ISN'T that helping people like you Gill ?

You may have 20,000 requests and i might have 500 requests per day or even more granular a month

How is that fair ?

Gill · Jan 15, 2020

ukdomains said:
ISN'T that helping people like you Gill ?

You may have 20,000 requests and i might have 500 requests per day or even more granular a month

How is that fair ?

I'm really sorry, it's my fault but I'm Sean, Gill finds this all very boring but is currently getting lots of email informing her about the replies she's getting

We have roughly 200 names, we're small fry. Why would anyone need 20,000 create requests? I'm talking low 000's and the 30 day delay would kill drop catching. Way back when there was no DAC, everybody got 1000 create requests via something called the automaton which was essentially POP server on steroids. Ignoring the fact that Nominet even back then couldn't write a bug free piece of code to save their lives, it was VERY difficult to catch a name, the 30 day would make it exponentially more difficult.

webber · Jan 15, 2020

Gill said:
With respect, in the real World you would need to ...
1. Either be able to code or have a huge budget to pay someone to code for you
2. Analyse Nominet's systems and hopefully understand its shortcomings and then if my experience is anything to go by, spend months constantly tweaking algorithms to simply keep up..

@Trauiner answered this

Trauiner said:
Why should something not be made easier to use by the masses, even if it's a technically difficult thing at the core?

Think of web hosting, web design, IT support, etc

PoshTiger · Jan 15, 2020

Trauiner said:
That then is 100% about greed, controlling the market and ensuring only certain people can catch domains for no other reason than to make themselves richer.

Not because they're the greediest, but because they're the best at it. It would be far more greedy to enable others to do the same and take a cut right?

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BREWSTERS

Gill

dee

PoshTiger

PoshTiger

Gill

armistice

dee

PoshTiger

PoshTiger

Gill

webber

Mark Walker

dropsnatcher

PoshTiger

Gill

ukdomains

Gill

webber

PoshTiger

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