Adsense click fraud

[Admin]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GoogleAdsense...90QQihZ002QQcategoryZ3767QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Surely eBay have a duty to remove listing of software that can be used for fraudulent means. Software like this could kill the PPC industry.

 

[clem]

Indeed. But what can they do? If this software does what it says on the tin, how do you detect something like this, particularly if your site attracts a big number of legit clicks?

A rather large company (no names mentioned) got caught out like this recently. They were using a click bot which came in from various different IP addresses. Luckily, the company that was paying them, had a bright spark (quite possibly the only bright spark in the company IMHO but we won't go there ). Said bright spark realised that even though the clicks were from different IPs, the spread of the clicks and the ad rank was too uniform - in fact, it was exactly the same every day (ie every Monday's data was exactly the same, every Tuesday's was the same etc etc). So, the 'middleman' company refunded their advertisers for a couple of months worth of dodgy revenue. Congrats to the analyst who found this - I personally think it was a nice piece of detective work. However, the revenue returned was a tiny, tiny fraction of the click fraud that goes on and barely made a dent on the fraudsters income.

So the discovery was great, but there are 2 major problems:
1, There are a myriad of ways to get around this sort of analysis so that it is well and truly undetectable.
2, The analysis hasn't happened again. Partly because it takes a lot of time and resources and partly because it makes the middleman a lot less money (they don't get the cut). Plus, it's hard to prove - after all, they *are* all different IPs.

Could it kill the PPC industry? In short, yes. If you were guaranteed a 5 figure amount a day, would you take it? If your domains started doing badly, would you be tempted? Honestly? Me personally, I like to make my money the legit way, but I can see the temptation. The first question is - how do you stop the fraud? The second question is - how do you persuade the big companies to implement your idea? (bear in mind that they are getting a cut of every fraudulent click. So why would they want them to stop? Would you like to be the person who is known for cutting your company's profit margin by double figures?)

In all seriousness, how do you detect and stop the fraud? I can't think of anything that could really...would be interesting to hear if any of you have any ideas

Okay, I've gone waaaaaay off on a tangent so I'll be quiet now

 

[Admin]

Great comments, but my main point was that Ebay should have enough money to employ someone to review thier listings and kick off something that is as blantantly dodgy as this is.

 

[clem]

I'm naturally cynical.... Do you not think it might be to do (partly) with money? The have to employ someone - that costs money. Plus, they will lose the listing fees. It's easier to just not bother because they make more cash both ways? I guess it helps that they are a monopoly too...I don't know of any other site which really challenges eBay. If you don't like it, tough, there's no alternative! I agree with you, but I guess it's just not cost effective - not when there's no competition

 

[domaingenius]

Personally I dont think that a lot of persons using Sedo and ND ,for example, would perhaps appreciate the utter seriousness of using such software or clicking on their own links. Sure they will know that its "naughty" but they perhaps dont realise that the US authorities would consider it fraud and mail fraud and have them over to the US in flash and in an orange jumpsuit. Somehow I think this is the message that must be got over to all users of ND and Sedo. Then it just leaves the hardened criminal types. Perhaps sedo and ND will tighten up the joining procedures eventually to weed out those as well.

DG

 

[stender]

Ebay don't take any action against dodgey auctions unless a rights owner files a vero. They are hapy to make money whatever the item.

As for click fraud there's nothing to stop it. I think it will die eventually and be replaced with affiliate where the merchant only pays out once they receive a valid order.

 

[retired_member27]

As for click fraud there's nothing to stop it. I think it will die eventually and be replaced with affiliate where the merchant only pays out once they receive a valid order.

I think that's the way things will eventually go, i.e. you only get paid on a comfirmed sale. For the retailers it's perfect but for domain owners it's bad.

 

[Jeewhizz]

Google is supposedly trialling such a program.

In regards to click fraud, it's not wholly aimed at those who park domains or who have ad's on their site.

When you buy ad space with google, your ad is ranked in order of CPC. If you pay $0.50 and the next highest competitor pays $1.00, you are going to be second until that person's daily limit is exceeded, and then you will be number one. A common use of such software is to click the competitors ad, thus having a two-fold bonus:

1) you move to slot 1
2) you end up costing the competitor a lot of money

I can't imagine that it is that hard to find out. Especially some of the basic software that has it based on a set interval between each click.

Jee

 

[hunnam]

The problem with that software is they are using Proxy servers, most big PPC companies detect them easily.

I knew of a group of over 500 webmasters who used to click on each others Adsense ads, they had a rota setup for it and I was asked to join but declined and they were caught 2 weeks later as they had changed from Adsense to Adbright.

 

[newbie]

What happens if someone uses click fraud against you?

For example, if you p**s someone off, they might install that software and direct it to your site

 

[retired_member12]

Don't forget that detection of click fraud is often found by the advertiser too. I noticed a sudden increase in charges & clicks on one of my campaigns. I notified Google, but in this instance they were already on to it like a shot. They dealt with it within days, and refunded the costs incurred by my next Adwords bill.

Whether using proxy servers or not, trends soon highlight themselves. In my experience, you shouldn't under estimate Google's ability to pick up on these things. That is the business they are in!

 

[hunnam]

I have contacted Google about various click fraud opportunitys on eBay, what I found was if you report a Adsense click fraud item it takes 3 times longer to remove than if you report a YPN click fraud item on eBay.

I actually contacted a seller who was offering a position in his webmaster ring for clicks, he said that you would get 300 clicks per week for £2 a week and had photocopies of his Adsense cheques with around $5,000 amounts. I asked why he was stealing from people just trying to start a business and how did he feel about being a thief and he replied "its not stealing at all, its not the advertisers money anyway" - Total ediot.

 

[retired_member11]

What happens if someone uses click fraud against you?

For example, if you p**s someone off, they might install that software and direct it to your site

Interesting point. Of concern to all legitimate domainers.

 

[static]

Better not to p**s anyone off.

 

[deconstruction]

i am always suprised that ebay dont make it easier for people to report ANY form of bogus listsing.

e.g. illegal software / dvd's / domain names like www.l0ans.co.uk being sold as loans.co.uk / the list is endless.

but can you report it.. can you 'eck!

as for click fraud.. i am sure that google will get one of their many uber geeks to crack the problem, hopefully not at the expense of everyone who uses adsense correctly.