Envato Rant..

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

It's true what they say...
You never truely know a company until you need help or assistance.
Well today has certainly been an eye opener as far as Envato is concerned.

I've been with them for years, purchased tons of products and generally been happy - and why not, they have a lot of good stuff to offer on there.
To try & cut a long story short I've had real issues with one particular purchase I made several months ago.
Basically they did a major update & it all went belly up.
I've been patient with the 'author' who had promised to fix the issue but a couple of months & several updates later it's still unusable and not fit for purpose so I've had to source an alternative solution.
(In fact it's now a completly different plugin to the one I originally purchased).

So, for the first time ever I thought it was fair on this occassion that I requested a refund.
At first I did try through Envato - but for some reason there was not an option on the refund page to select the plugin I wanted.
Then contacted Envato direct & explained the issues I had and requested the refund.
No response!!

With no options left I reluctantly open a Paypal Dispute (another first for me I think).
This is where the fun begins...
I'm immediately locked out of my Envato Account!!!!! (they say it's for "fraud protection" : )
So I'm now left without being able to access any of my previously purchased downloads or get any plugin support (also paid for).

They then inform me unless I close the Paypal dispute, they won't discuss the issue + my account will remain locked!
Now surely this is just blatant B. M!

At the end of the day it's just a few quid, but now for some stupid reason they decide to play silly buggers & start waving a big stick!!
What is it with some companies???
Why don't they hold any value in loyal customers & just treat them with contempt & decide to burn bridges for the sake of a small token refund?
It must be a size issue....

Rant over

stellar73 · Jan 25, 2016

Wow I'm quite shocked by this!

Got a few Envato purchases myself and always thought they were reasonably decent.

I presume that at the moment any other plugins you've bought from them will be in use on your sites and (assuming it's Wordpress you're using) will be getting updates directly from the repository?..... Or have they suspended your license numbers too?

Depending on how much practical difference it makes to you I would be tempted to fight fire with fire and increase the amount of the Paypal dispute to the total cost of all plugins in the account that you're now "locked out" of. Also might be worth a blog post and linking to their Twitter account (ie as much public shaming as possible!)

max99x · Jan 25, 2016

Pretty bad this!

Have you tweeted them? This often sorts issues with companies too, or tweet them a link to this too lol

dazc · Jan 25, 2016

I had a similar experience although it was a single plug-in. It didn't work, the support ticket wasn't answered and my only resort was a paypal dispute.

The dispute was never answered and I eventually got my refund. It was if this was just some sort of scam that relied on some people not bothering to get their money back?

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

stellar73 said:
I presume that at the moment any other plugins you've bought from them will be in use on your sites and (assuming it's Wordpress you're using) will be getting updates directly from the repository?..... Or have they suspended your license numbers too?

Yes, I have a lot at stake here.
Not all of them get updated from the repository + of course I now have no plugin support or any access to any files. (apart from my latest copies)
Potentially they could revoke all licences, which is a terrifying thought.

They were responding almost instantly to my emails last night.
I asked them directly if I closed the dispute would my account be re-activated?
I was told, Yes.
Closed it & I'm now being left in the dark.

Shocked!!

diablo · Jan 25, 2016

I also buy a lot through Envato and am shocked by the way you are being treated.

Won't be so quick to buy through them if this isn't resolved quickly.

mat · Jan 25, 2016

As said above I would reach out to them over social media and you would hope it will get sorted.

Adam H · Jan 25, 2016

It is in their terms/help :

https://help.market.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/204010880-PayPal-Disputes-And-Chargebacks

https://help.market.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/202821460-Can-I-Get-A-Refund-

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

Sure it's in their terms. (easy to look up in hindsight)
Doesn't make it right to hold an account to ransom though does it?

A quick look around shows this is common practice for them.
Surprised they still have a Paypal account TBH.

Adam H · Jan 25, 2016

MikeJDS said:
Sure it's in their terms. (easy to look up in hindsight)
Doesn't make it right to hold an account to ransom though does it?

A quick look around shows this is common practice for them.
Surprised they still have a Paypal account TBH.

Absolutely, not saying its "good" practice but I also see why they do it. I'm sure they used to get hundreds/thousands of chargebacks because people simply tried something and wanted a refund after its been downloaded, paypal are known for poorly dealt with chargebacks for digital goods ( or used to be ).

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

I understand they must have a lot of poor/fraudulent claims.
But I didn't think they would batter an eyelid in issuing a refund.
I did outline my account history. (not hard for them to look up).

I had no intension of escalating the claim, I don't think digital products are covered anyway.
Which only reinforces the question, why do they react in that way?
I wouldn't think any claim would be successful through Paypal escalation anyway. Would it?

redbird · Jan 25, 2016

My experience was that I have also bought several items from Envato but did have to ask for a refund about six months ago for a script that was missing a fundamental feature (useless without!).

It was the first time I had ever asked for a refund and was all sorted out within a day or two (following requests for more info). I was disappointed that the refund was a credit to my account rather than a refund to PayPal, but not a huge issue to me as I knew I would spend it at some point, but I didn't feel that was right.

Adam H · Jan 25, 2016

Paypal changed the way they look at digital goods midway through last year ( for the UK anyway ). Id imagine they lock accounts as a precaution, more of a guilty until proven innocent style. Id bet that doing it the way they do is alot less work intensive/cost effective than just allowing chargebacks to happen freely.

When digital downloads are concerned not everyone is ethical, the only people that would lose out if they allowed chargebacks freely would be the developers who genuinely release a good product and they get charged back at every corner. It would make evato pointless for dev's to list on. Catch 22.

Kari · Jan 25, 2016

Use them a lot myself never had issues so far , but as this shows things can happen

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

Update:
After 3 emails finally get a pasted response & I'm granted account access (for now at least).

PoshTiger · Jan 25, 2016

Paypal disputes should only really be used as a last resort - i'd have contacted their support first anyway.

Envato is only a really marketplace remember, some items come and go and all the item I purchase I know I'm going to have to heavily modify myself.

I purchased a template a while back and I can't update to the newer version without re-installing my site - I took that risk when I paid $40 for a template that would have cost $5000 for someone to develop for me.

Whatever you paid, I'm sure you got your money's worth and expecting updates forever for free is a little unrealistic.

Demanding a full refund if something goes wrong is just as unrealistic - did you uninstall the template from your site before asking for a refund?

MikeJDS · Jan 25, 2016

PoshTiger said:
Paypal disputes should only really be used as a last resort - i'd have contacted their support first anyway.

I did & got no response.

Whatever you paid, I'm sure you got your money's worth and expecting updates forever for free is a little unrealistic.

I don't expect anything for free - I pay for ongoing support. (It's now also a requirement through codecanyon).

Demanding a full refund if something goes wrong is just as unrealistic - did you uninstall the template from your site before asking for a refund?

It wasn't a template - It was a plugin.
The plugin is now totally different to what I originally purchased & is not functioning properly, so I can't use it.
This is the only time I have ever asked for a refund.

----------------
You seem to have assumed quite a lot about me

I think your totally missing the point!

Thanks anyway.

PoshTiger · Jan 25, 2016

If it's an important website and you're using 3rd party plugins, you should have a sandbox environment and test it yourself first.

There are far too many variables for small dev companies to factor in - I usually test everything to be 100% sure it won't break anything before I install on a live site.

Could you not just re-install the old plugin?

I've waited weeks before putting a dispute in, simply because I know about the consequences of doing this for the other party.. you might have locked out envato's paypal account.

How much was it anyway?