Gary McKinnon

[aZooZa]

If the septics had any sense, they should be thinking about getting the NSA to hire this guy, instead of giving him up to 70 years. How stupid do nations get? Obama will sort it now that he has a Nobel gong.

 

[Darren]

I dont think hes clever as suggested, from what i've read he just used public 0day exploits on remote management.

 

[retired_member32]

all hackers should be hung...it is a nasty crime that should be eradicated quick smart, and has for Mr obama who was woke up at 6.00am to be told he had just received a nobel prize and in the next breath mentioned he was sending thousands more troops to war,so now we have a devalued nobel prize...what a move

 

[Skinner]

Pisses me off when people use hacker like a wet fish to slap people. (flashes the Lilt advert, You will never be a fisherman, only I'm hearing Hacker instead). There are many types of hacker, the bad hackers represent minority fraction of the subset. If you transposed Hackers onto a variety set like religion, negative hackers would be about the size of Scientology proportionally.

I name Dale as a Hacker in the true meaning, Denys is a Hacker, Chris is a Hacker, I'm a Hacker almost anyone who messes with computers is a hacker, this was cut down into programmers sometime ago. Presently hackers have moved into real life with Life Hackers and Reality Hackers.

Its like me calling everyone who has a kid a pedo because they have seen their own kids nude GRRRRRRRR.

p.s. I'm in an anti-office worker mood today after I was called out to site at 6am because the office worker couldn't get online. IT HELPS TO TURN THE WIFI ON! GRRRRRR. Off to take my temazepam now, before I go kill people

 

[GreyWing]

This guy is a pee taker though, he was taunting the US agencies for weeks. He used to post in their systems "I'm deleting all your crap now and there is nothing you can do about it"

Does that sound like hunting for aliens to anyone?

This guy desereves everything he is going to get. All this US v Brit crap is a side track by his family. Tell me if someone from Nigeria logs into one of our defence systems and crashes it, anyone feel lenient.

 

[Skinner]

The problem is that the US are on a witch hunt to nail someone to prove that they can get programmers. If they was genuinely going to punish him, then all good but they want to execute him to send a message. Doing this will martyr him.

Remember the ebook format fiasco for Adobe ? The challenged a russian hacker (Dmitri Sklyarov) with a computer older than adobe itself to crack their new 'uncrackable' encryption, then had him arrested when he proved it was possible at DEFCON. The result was every script kiddie, black hat, white hat, pink polkadot hat in the world DDoS'd adobe into oblivion, they boycotted their products, cracked their software. They brought adobe to its knee's until they dropped their charges against him.

The government simply are no match in the cyberworld, this will drive more to hit back because they can rather than because they want to.

 

[GreyWing]

To be fair mate, these are defence computers. The same defence networt that is flying these predator things around afghanistan from their offices in the states and saving the life's of coalition troops.

If someone gets in and starts pissing about with these systems they are putting life's at risk. So just short of executing him is justified imo.

This joker was taunting them, bragging about how good he was and that they wouldn't find him.. well it's ok being sorry after he has been caught, can't do the time don't do the crime as the old saying goes.

I've not heard of the other case but sounds like different reasons behind it, but sounds out of order. This one is just some plonker who thought he was above the law.

Yep the Government may not be a match in cyberspace but at the end of the day, cyberspace exists in the real world not the other way round and this guy hopefully will be a lesson to others that prison exists in the real world.

Hopefully a nice 20-40 year sentence awaiting him, just like their should be for anyone that breaks the law in this country.

 

[disruptive]

I tend to agree with GreyWing, it was his malicious intent that I have a problem with. If it were just snooping around and taking a look, I can see no harm in that really (although the Americans might). But the fact that he was actively changing the systems and knowing fully what he was doing means he does not quite get my sympathy. I know he may have some conditional that means he is driven to this sort of behaviour - but if he was obsessed about bombs and weapons and we found him stockpiling Uranium and making his own enrichment machines - would we be so lenient on him?

The question for me is: Did he jeopardize lives? Or could he have jeopardized lives?

I think yes and thus cannot unfortunately offer much sympathy for this "harmless hacker".

 

[fish]

If this guy broke into your house and snooped around would you like it?

Most people I think would say no.

Gaining entry into someone else's system / network uninvited is just like the above example except that it is a different (electronic) environment.

If someone hacked into your servers/systems would you like it?

Most people would say no.

It is illegal and those who do this kind of stuff should pay the penalty if they are caught.

 

[Skinner]

I can see both sides of the arguement here, yes he was wrong but what if the extent of what they was implying was true and he could have taken control of an MQ-1 as suggested above ? Would you rather Bin Laden discovered this ?

This is why companies pay MILLIONS to people like him to discover flaws, but the government have glossed over this little fact and painting him as an ancharcist and thats why they are destined for a world of pain.

I'm failing to see the difference here between all these cybersquatters tarring us all with the same brush (which most of you whine about) and all 'hackers' being tarred with his brush ? What is different ? The only difference I see is, some hackers are capable of slapping the government hard enough to make them cry, and alienating them won't end well (for either side as the adobe example shown)

If they went for him on the merits and basis of fact then all good but they are not being open, clear or honest on the situation. They are running a witch hunt and getting him on bullcrap.

Lets use the MQ-1 example above, do you seriously believe that no proprietry software, auth codes, dongle encs or passwords or multiples thereof would be required to do this ? if the answer from the USAF is No, then I seriously think its time they hand over the MQ-1's because thats just crazy and they are not safe to have them.

I want to know exactly how much access he got and what layers of security he broke, because I refuse to believe from cracking thru 1 layer of security he could have launched nukes at russia, flown predators or reapers into buildings, ordered american troops to simultaniously fart and light them on fire to blow up an air base or whatever far fetched story they have.

I want answers and facts, and I want clarity because what I see now is smoke and mirrors.

 

[aZooZa]

I agree with both sides of the argument really. I'd come down on the side of mercy in this particular case. 70 years is far too long a sentence given that he has AS plus there are undoubtedly other extenuating circumstances. In fact 70 years in a US jail is like a death sentence.

 

[JMOT]

It was stupidity on an epic scale for the guy to think he could pick a fight in that way with the US authorities and get away with it.

Indeed the guy might count himself lucky he didnt pick on another country that might have simply had him killed.

A touch harsh his punishment but he should be made an example of

Thats my 2c :ds

 

[GreyWing]

I agree with both sides of the argument really. I'd come down on the side of mercy in this particular case. 70 years is far too long a sentence given that he has AS plus there are undoubtedly other extenuating circumstances. In fact 70 years in a US jail is like a death sentence.

Thing is mate he wasn't dianosed with AS until 8 years or so after the hacking took place and only after he had been caught and identified. So I'm very doubtful he has any condition other than a lawyer with a good imagination for excuses.

Skinner wrote "I want to know exactly how much access he got and what layers of security he broke, because I refuse to believe from cracking thru 1 layer of security he could have launched nukes at russia, flown predators or reapers into buildings, ordered american troops to simultaniously fart and light them on fire to blow up an air base or whatever far fetched story they have."

Nobody is saying he could have used these resources maliciously, but if Barclays found someone had hacked level 1 of their security system would it be safe for them to shut down and locked off level 2 whilst they investigated. So if predators were left on the ground and in operable then people's life's depend on these things being in the air providing cover.

This is an extreme don't get me wrong and we weren't fighting in afghan at the time but it goes to show the kind of realiance we have on systems than some people might think is just a computer and it turns out that real life's are at stake when this idiot is taunting someone for a joke.

70 is a bit long imo also and he won't do more than 5, I think the UK Gov has already had guarantees of such.

 

[Skinner]

Like I said, this all smells of "Lets send a message" to me, thats my whole beef. Sure punish him, but making an example is just silly.

 

[GreyWing]

Like I said, this all smells of "Lets send a message" to me, thats my whole beef. Sure punish him, but making an example is just silly.

I'm not sure mate, I think that's just the American way and it is us that's gone ultra soft on people with prison sentences.

America are caught up in this "everyone wants to kill us" mindset and probably do think this kid was selling the secrets to the Russians and Al Queada etc, when we all know that he was just being a prat.

 

[Skinner]

You don't beed to tell me about going soft.

I'm the idiot who keep submitting petitions to 10 downing street to pay whatever it costs to get Joe Arpaio running the UK Prision system (They reject them saying they are meant to be humourous but I ain't laughing).

I've broke my fair share of laws but if that man was ruling our penal system, fecked if I'd break the crossing the road not at lights law altho I do think pink undies would look damned good on me

Interestingly the JA costs arizona MILLIONS every month in lawsuits but by proxy saves multiple times that in public spending alone, have a read about him : Joe Arpaio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His solution to overcrowding prisions is brilliant, make em live in a tent until they build their own prision

 

[scooter]

What I find quite incredible is the total lack of security in the first place. The people in charge of this should be jailed for putting potentialy so many lives and national security at risk.

This is no major "hacker". It was a kiddie with a 56K dialup that showed what a complete shambles and lack of security there was.

He got in by doing blank password scanning :lol:
Bad enough gaining access to one system, he was into loads. 140 different computers to be exact. From the Pentagon to Nasa and was able to do it for months.

To be extradited under computer laws in America you have to have caused $5,000 worth of damage. They state he did exactly $5000 worth of damage per pc.

Maybe, what they really mean was this is the amount it cost them to get professionals in to secure their systems.

The other thing is..... What exactly did Gary find? Could this also have some bearing?


All I can say is thank goodness it was Gary that got in and not some of the friends of the 9/11 brigade. Of course, there is always the possibility because security was so lax they already had. :shock:

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[GreyWing]

What I find quite incredible is the total lack of security in the first place. The people in charge of this should be jailed for putting potentialy so many lives and national security at risk.

This is no major "hacker". It was a kiddie with a 56K dialup that showed what a complete shambles and lack of security there was.

He got in by doing blank password scanning :lol:
Bad enough gaining access to one system, he was into loads. 140 different computers to be exact. From the Pentagon to Nasa and was able to do it for months.

To be extradited under computer laws in America you have to have caused $5,000 worth of damage. They state he did exactly $5000 worth of damage per pc.

Maybe, what they really mean was this is the amount it cost them to get professionals in to secure their systems.

The other thing is..... What exactly did Gary find? Could this also have some bearing?


All I can say is thank goodness it was Gary that got in and not some of the friends of the 9/11 brigade. Of course, there is always the possibility because security was so lax they already had. :shock:

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If you leave your car keys in the door and I take it, it's still theft regardless of your security levels. This chap knew he did wrong and still did it, the crime was his.

What I read he did much more than 5k worth of damage, he cost them many millions in repairing and recovering these files he deleted, whilst taunting them.

Some hackers break in and say, hey boys look at me and by the way your system is garbage, fix it before someone serious hacks in. This guy broke in and deleted files whilst bragging about how good he was, ain't bragging now he is off to the big house.

 

[retired_member12]

I could understand if he trespassed once or twice, but heck, 140 times? The guy shouldn't have been in there, period! If you walk up to a gate which says 'Don't Enter', but you attempt and succeed to open it, don't be surprised if the landowner comes after you, because the very second the gate is opened, that is the moment from which unpredictable damage can start! It doesn't matter whether other, more dangerous elements could get access in the same manner; they are other arguments for another day.
In reality, the 70 years thing isn't going to happen, maybe 5 years or possibly less. As his defence finally accepts the inevitable, they'll more than likely focus on the weaknesses of the systems security in due course. His lawyers have given it a good shot, but due process is going to take its course.

 

[scooter]

I'm not defending him. He deserves jail, not too sure about 70 years though.


All I am doing is highlighting how incredibly unsecure the US defense / space agency (and whatever other departments he visited) security systems were. It's the "system security experts" at the time that are the real villains and the main threat to national security. Lets face it, security was non existant.

For 1 man (sorry, boy) on a 56k dial up to have been able to cause millions in damage is a complete farce.

The real scary thing is if it was so easy for him to get in, who else had been visiting the same multiple deparments and not leaving tracks? The Russians?, Chinese?

National Security? What a joke. The most powerful country in the world and a boy almost brings their defense systems completely down via a 56k modem :lol:

What if he really went to town? what if he decided to delete evrything he came across?

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