20i Reseller Hosting

HelpToBuy.org DRS danger?

Discussion in 'General Board' started by Ben Thomas, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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  4. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    It's clearly under "confusingly similar" and potentially intended to harvest/dupe users for some kind of lead gen etc, can't see why drs not has a strong case.
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Help to buy is a product, mortgage is what you will need to go with help to buy scheme. Also, you will need other things when you finally buy your house. This site is to generate leads as you said but not to dupe visitors, you cant really because there is only one provider of help to buy and this provider does not sell mortgages or any related products or services.

    If I launch the site with mortgage product, I will discuss with the gov that I will include a link directing anyone looking for help to buy to the new government site.

    DRS will only work if the site is used to advertise Help to buy scheme, if its only mortgages and mortgage related products then I cant see DRS working here.
     
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  6. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Not sure who wrote that article, or if it's automatically translated, but it's terribly written.

    Are you the new owner of HelpToBuy.org? Doubt they have a leg to stand on with DRS, they had plenty of time to renew the domain.
     
  7. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    It's not nonsense, really. Anyone spending 40k on this domain is doing it for dishonest reasons.

    They know they can take advantage of a unique type of trust in a malicious/misleading way.
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    I wish I'm the owner, I do have good experience of the mortgage market and one mortgage lead could generate low to mid £xxxx in commission.
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Taking advantage of backlink is not a dishonest activity or I'm I missing something here?

    Why would I spend £40k on a domain to be malicious or to mislead visitors? to what gain?

    No one can sell Help to Buy, no one but the government, also, this is a scheme that gov sell through builders not mortgage brokers. Mortgage brokers only come into play after you have been qualified for the scheme and they are looking for a mortgage company that will accept help-to-buy scheme.

    I don't think I understand your point at all.
     
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  10. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if perhaps a building firm has bought it. Barratt Homes for example.
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    I don't think any of the top builders needs it. They are already in bed with the government on the scheme, the scheme has boosted their bank balance for years and kept property price up.

    I have my reservation of the scheme personally, because it does not really help those that needs a home the most and it kept property price artificially high. Government could have use the funds to build affordable homes, which would have slow down the rate of house price growth. But the scheme is out their and you cant fault anyone that uses it.
     
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  12. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    The only pure value in the domain is because of the backlinks and the traffic that ultimately comes from them. Apart from those factors, the domain is worthless. (Apart from selling blog posts for the DA but the same still applies.)

    The value is from taking advantage of people that think they've clicked through to an official government website. Let's be real for a second, do you think the new domain owner will be contacting the banks etc who link to the page and ask them to update the links/clarify the link no longer goes to the website they think it does?

    Why would they not do that if they're honest marketers/business people? They want to gain from people being misled (by accident) of where they're getting to sent to.

    Domains like this should be banned from being sold in the first place.
     
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    signature Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    This is the purpose of buying the domain name and this is the main reason why people buy domain names with backlinks. Not sure about everything else you are talking about.

    If I click on a link that takes me to the website and all I can see if information about mortgages or insurance, I will either move on because its not what I'm after, or check the service out because I do need insurance or mortgage.

    I think I will leave this alone now, not sure I buy your point but you are entitled to your opinion about backlinks.

    I would have said it time to hit the pub so as not to reply again but lockdown wont let that lie stick. So I'm done with this one and time to watch football I guess.
     
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  14. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    Whether someone just 301s it or sticks a new site up regardless of their "good intention", its on the radar and I think it's potentially quite a risky punt, that said if someone can get in and out milking off a thousand x £1000 commissions for leads, then I'm eating humble pie!
     
  15. Sirbigman

    Sirbigman Active Member

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    Without sounding hypocritical, I did put £15k on it, what a slippery slope this is. Bad purchase all around, there will be consequences, 100%. Just watch. The fact that it’s getting media attention makes it so much worse. It could get penalised by Google if it gets flagged as deceiving.
     
  16. Chris Holland

    Chris Holland Active Member Exclusive Member

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    I just hope that the buyer doesn't have any enemies. A suitably motivated bad actor with SEO expertise could make a serious dent in the SEO value of the domain, which in fact is all the value, barring an unlikely rally in the public perception, and sales values, of lengthy, three word .org.uk names.

    DRS cases are now more than ever dependent on the assigned commercial intellectual property attorney's level of animosity and bias towards domain investors. There's now a better chance of predicting the likely odds of a roulette wheel ball these days. It's pot luck whether you get a fairminded expert like Tim Brown or Tony Willoughby or a biased and bitter legal hack like Keith Gymer who regularly calls all domainers "cybersquatters" and to my knowledge, has never found for a domainer. Ever.

    Let's face it, when Nominet received the DRS complaint about my subsequently well publicised Fayed.co.uk domain, there could only be one possible choice that Lesley directed to have 'randomly allocated' to the case. The petty, small minded corporate stooge and Chief Brownnoser Gymer.

    Interestingly enough, in many cases where a domain comes up that really natters and the big corporate complainant is pally with the Haworth/McCalla/Bradley Junta that use Nominet as their own personal gravy train and wealth creation vehicle, Keith Gymer is many times more likely to be assigned to the case as the de facto DRS hatchet man. He gets allocated a remarkably higher percntage of 50/50 balls and is well known meekly handing over domains to blatant, serial RDNH
    merchants.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  17. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    I wasn't aware of the Fayed domain thing but from the articles I've just seen it appears the domain was used maliciously... unless the news articles contain lies/false statements, which may be what you're referring to.

    From a quick 10 minute read it appears the domain was used maliciously and then a lie fabricated to try and keep the domain. Unless there is evidence against that... but that's another topic/thread all together.

    I don't like to believe everything I read but the articles seem quite compelling.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  18. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    Was your use case to build a site on it or use it for the link juice? Genuinely curious. 15k isn't a small amount to throw around for a .org domain.
     
  19. Sirbigman

    Sirbigman Active Member

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    My plan was to create an awin affiliate website for mortgage lead generation. Get some mortgage relevant content done and wait for profits to come in. I didn’t think in through though. I had the impression that the gov moved away from it.
     
  20. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    The stage is set for someone to lose 40 bags overnight. Any investment like this is a risk and I’m sure they knew the consequences that could happen. But whoever mentioned above, the fact it’s getting publicity makes it so much worse - I totally agree. Someone out there is going to feel stupid and humiliated enough about making this mistake to do something about it.
     
  21. jasman United Kingdom

    jasman Active Member

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    I really hope this doesn't go to DRS. If it did it would make the gov look stupid to have forgotten to renew it (if it is so important to them to stop it falling into the wrong hands as the article attempts to persuade). They should have put the site on the .gov.uk domain in the first place, then no-one could ever re-register it. They registered a domain in the commercial sphere, where permanent ownership is not guaranteed, using a domain that in the future anyone else could own, and they stopped paying the renewal fees. I think after several years of forwarding the domain onto the .gov.uk version, and seeing that that site is established as the main one in Google for the phrase, they just decided they didn't need/ want the domain any more.

    The British mainstream media have always vilified domainers. They are of course biased in general, heavily censored and they like to stir up controversy to push their crappy little half-truth stories, and that's what is going on here.They still have the Establishment mindset from pre-Internet days where the few of them tell the millions of us how it is, but they are bitter that they no longer have the position of power they used to, now that they are only a small voice in the giant online world, where we can read and publish to each other. I haven't bought a newspaper in the last 20 years, though I wondered if I might have to a few months back when toilet roll started to become scarce.

    It's not true that registering a domain like this is automatically dishonest. Firstly anyone who shells out £40k on a domain clearly has a long term plan - one which they are hardly likely to jeopardise by doing anything illegal with the site. This is in stark contrast to the vast majority of scammers, who use cheap throw-away domains for their fly-by-night operations, knowing that they will be shut down soon.

    In the real world, it's very common that when a business vacates their premises, a competitor comes along and starts trading from the same place. Competitors look out for places where there is an established customer base, many of whom would be happy to switch over to the them if their service levels and pricing are good enough. Why should it not be the same with domains, as long as you are not passing off?

    Establishing inbound links and traffic is like a shop in the real world, for example a news agent getting well known in the local area and building up a customer base. If the owner of that news agent gives up the lease, they don't "own" all the customer base that continues going to that retail unit for evermore. They might forewarn their customers that they are moving and ask them to come to their new premises - and that's pretty much what the gov did by forwarding the old domain onto the new one for several years. But whoever takes over the shop next benefits from the ongoing traffic that has been built up.

    The new owner has not done anything with the domain yet and people are acting like he has been passing off as the government. Get off his back and let him have a chance to do something with it.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020