Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[websaway]

You have got to buy your .uk

It's not like info and biz or even .net if you own a .com
You have to have the .uk or someone else will register it and it's in the identical namespace.
How can Nominet justify blackmailing something like 7,000,000 entities to spend up to £20 per year on an unnecessary domain which will create an income stream of up to £50,000,000 per year for themselves, with no suggested benefit for the customer.

Let's just reiterate, up to

£50,000,000

per year.

 

[Nigel]

I heard Monkey only pays peanuts for his domains

Yeah I thought a 'throw away' domain cost no more than a monkey

 

[foz]

You have got to buy your .uk

It's not like info and biz or even .net if you own a .com
You have to have the .uk or someone else will register it and it's in the identical namespace.
How can Nominet justify blackmailing something like 7,000,000 entities to spend up to £20 per year on an unnecessary domain which will create an income stream of up to £50,000,000 per year for themselves, with no suggested benefit for the customer.

Let's just reiterate, up to

£50,000,000

per year.

Proposed is £4.50 per year (multi), £5.50 single year. Still adds up though.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I'm not sure why people expect valuable domains to not be taken up because people don't realise. There will be a 6 month window here - if a domain is registered you will be presumably be able to see this, so you will also be able to tell who hasn't yet taken up a domain they were allowed.

For any domain worth more than £1k, once it hasn't been allocated in the first month, how many emails and messages are these people going to be getting saying "Hi you haven't taken your .uk domain for £5, please take it and sell it to me for an easy £200".

They might not sell it, but it'll certainly put them on alert that its actually worth something, and they'll go and get it themselves.

I think the number of valuable domains not being taken up is going to be tiny. And restricted to strange circumstances of someone dying during the consultation period etc.

 

[GreyWing]

I'm not sure why people expect valuable domains to not be taken up because people don't realise. There will be a 6 month window here - if a domain is registered you will be presumably be able to see this, so you will also be able to tell who hasn't yet taken up a domain they were allowed.

For any domain worth more than £1k, once it hasn't been allocated in the first month, how many emails and messages are these people going to be getting saying "Hi you haven't taken your .uk domain for £5, please take it and sell it to me for an easy £200".

They might not sell it, but it'll certainly put them on alert that its actually worth something, and they'll go and get it themselves.

I think the number of valuable domains not being taken up is going to be tiny. And restricted to strange circumstances of someone dying during the consultation period etc.

For the same reason that they didn't take up the .co when offered by countless spam resellers at its launch. The public don't see a difference, they don't care about domains.. they will just see it as a extra cost and someone they never heard of trying to get money out of them.... Who the heck is Nominet?

They will know in 4-5 years when someone is sat there and they go to try and buy it and think, what on earth is going on here?

 

[websaway]

Surely everyone can see that who gets what is just a red herring.

 

[Stephen]

UK Government use of website names

The UK Government hasn't even asked for these reserved .uk domains. How dumb is that of Nominet.

Does that refer to the reserved non Government department names or genuine government names, if the former do you have a source?

On the latter case:

HM Treasury is the government's economic and finance ministry, maintaining control over public spending, setting the direction of the UK's economic policy

Along with 24 other ministerial departments do not have their own websites.

They all just have a single page on gov.uk
e.g. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-treasury

with email address like
[email protected]

The question is will hmtreasury.co.uk (2003) get hmtreasury.uk as the oldest registration?

and hm-treasury.co.uk?

 

[foz]

Does that refer to the reserved non Government department names or genuine government names, if the former do you have a source?

On the latter case:

HM Treasury is the government's economic and finance ministry, maintaining control over public spending, setting the direction of the UK's economic policy

Along with 24 other ministerial departments do not have their own websites.

They all just have a single page on gov.uk
e.g. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-treasury

with email address like
[email protected]

The question is will hmtreasury.co.uk (2003) get hmtreasury.uk as the oldest registration?

and hm-treasury.co.uk?

The .uk list Nominet want to set aside/reserve.

 

[foz]

For the same reason that they didn't take up the .co when offered by countless spam resellers at its launch. The public don't see a difference, they don't care about domains.. they will just see it as a extra cost and someone they never heard of trying to get money out of them.... Who the heck is Nominet?

They will know in 4-5 years when someone is sat there and they go to try and buy it and think, what on earth is going on here?

True. Happened in the short domain auctions. Received emails from TM holders saying how/who/what? They could have taken part in phase one of that release too.

 

[Skinner]

I'm a little interested in the first refusal process itsself.

Lets say

alpha.org.uk 2000
alpha.co.uk 2004
alpha.me.uk 2006

There is a 6 month period for the oldest reg to get first refusal, so alpha.org.uk will be offered first refusal, does .co.uk / .me.uk owner have to wait 6 months for that offer to expire then take their chances with first come first served and potentially lose the .uk to a non-involved party? or do they get a refusal period ?

I haven't read all the docs, but I'm wondering how the 2nd/3rd/etc refusal will work, because the bit I read reads like only the oldest reg gets first refusal everyone else gets to play drop catcher.

 

[Stephen]

clock cannot be turned back

For any domain worth more than £1k, once it hasn't been allocated in the first month, how many emails and messages are these people going to be getting saying "Hi you haven't taken your .uk domain for £5, please take it and sell it to me for an easy £200".

The way I read it if you have the oldest registration, like a .org.uk you can get the .co.uk on day 1 and don't have to wait for 6 months to own the .uk.

The emails will start from the beginning of the launch.

They might not sell it, but it'll certainly put them on alert that its actually worth something, and they'll go and get it themselves.

They cannot if they are not the oldest registrant and it is taken early.

I think the number of valuable domains not being taken up is going to be tiny. And restricted to strange circumstances of someone dying during the consultation period etc.

Disagree, my best guess is over 100,000 domains with genuine websites will not act, for a wide variety of reasons.

Some will be okay with it but later the majority will not, and the clock cannot be turned back for them.

 

[markb]

The question is will hmtreasury.co.uk (2003) get hmtreasury.uk as the oldest registration? and hm-treasury.co.uk?

Thats exactly my point made earlier, there are thousands of .co.uk owners that are going to get government related .uk domain names unless nominet widen their reserved names policy. For example it looks like a domainer owns "foodstandardsagency-co-uk" so will get "foodstandardsagency-uk". I can't understand why I would lose out on the opportunity of getting the "food-uk" domain yet the person above gets the food standards agency domain.

As mentioned, if nominet go ahead and release .uk as is, there's going to be thousands of cases where people get .uk domains related to businesses, government departments and local authorities, which is going to cause MAJOR problems in future when these departments and businesses realise what they have missed out on and didnt realise because nominet never told them. Once nominet have sold the ".UK" for any domain, there will be no taking them back.

 

[foz]

Once nominet have sold the ".UK" for any domain, there will be no taking them back.

DRS? bar generic and descriptive. Although with the newer registration date you can't argue "domain predates rights".

 

[Stephen]

as I understand it

I'm a little interested in the first refusal process itsself.

Lets say

alpha.org.uk 2000
alpha.co.uk 2004
alpha.me.uk 2006

There is a 6 month period for the oldest reg to get first refusal, so alpha.org.uk will be offered first refusal, does .co.uk / .me.uk owner have to wait 6 months for that offer to expire then take their chances with first come first serves and potential lose the option ? or do they get a refusal period ?

I haven't read all the docs, but I'm wondering how the 2nd/3rd/etc refusal will work, because the bit I read reads like only the oldest reg gets first refusal everyone else gets to play drop catcher.

The way I have read it.

Assuming no .ltd.uk and .plc.uk pre-dating.

Form your example, from day 1 of .uk launch alpha.org.uk can register alpha.uk as oldest registrant if it can satisfy UK address condition.

Others would have to register interest and on 6 months the oldest domain that pre-registered interest would have alpha.uk registered to them.

Then if there was no pre-registered interest or take up by the oldest registrant it would be a free for all, 6 months after the launch.

 

[Murray]

I'm a little interested in the first refusal process itsself.

Lets say

alpha.org.uk 2000
alpha.co.uk 2004
alpha.me.uk 2006

There is a 6 month period for the oldest reg to get first refusal, so alpha.org.uk will be offered first refusal, does .co.uk / .me.uk owner have to wait 6 months for that offer to expire then take their chances with first come first served and potentially lose the .uk to a non-involved party? or do they get a refusal period ?

I haven't read all the docs, but I'm wondering how the 2nd/3rd/etc refusal will work, because the bit I read reads like only the oldest reg gets first refusal everyone else gets to play drop catcher.

I was assuming that after the first 6 months it the first claimant didn't come forward that it would be given to the next oldest should they have made a claim.

But that was an assumption, I should have reread it before posting this

 

[Retired_Member38]

The way I read it if you have the oldest registration, like a .org.uk you can get the .co.uk on day 1 and don't have to wait for 6 months to own the .uk.

Yes I know, and that further helps what I'm suggesting will happen.

Day 1, you buy xxxx.uk as you have xxxx.co.uk and its the oldest. Domainers all look at the whois for xxxx.uk and can immediately see its been registered.

Day 30, domainers look at yyyy.uk whois, and see that its not been taken. They are now all trying to contact the owner of whoever has the earliest version of yyyy and trying to convince them to pay £5 and sell the domain to them.

This is why no legitimately valuable domains are going to make it through the 6 month period without being registered - outside of someone being dead or in a coma and not contactable.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I was assuming that after the first 6 months it the first claimant didn't come forward that it would be given to the next oldest should they have made a claim.

But that was an assumption, I should have reread it before posting this

A ‘right of first refusal’ would give registrants of existing .uk domain names at the third level (e.g. .co.uk, .me.uk, .org.uk etc) the opportunity to secure the corresponding registration at the second level. In the event of two competing claims, the oldest current, continuous registration(1) would be given priority. The proposal is to run the right of first refusal for a 6 month period from launch.

Domains not covered by a right of first refusal would be available to register from launch on a first-come, first-served, basis.


Anyone with another extension of the domain can apply. Presumably if the oldest registrant applies, they'll be given the domain immediately. If they don't, the next oldest to apply would need to wait on the full 6 months expiring, as right up till the last day the other guy could change his mind.

 

[Skinner]

The only way nominet could combat this is to restrict resale of names where there are more than 1 interested and involved party for X amount of Time, which would make it a long term game for anyone trying to do this.

I suspect I will lose multiple LLLs this way

Yes I know, and that further helps what I'm suggesting will happen.

Day 1, you buy xxxx.uk as you have xxxx.co.uk and its the oldest. Domainers all look at the whois for xxxx.uk and can immediately see its been registered.

Day 30, domainers look at yyyy.uk whois, and see that its not been taken. They are now all trying to contact the owner of whoever has the earliest version of yyyy and trying to convince them to pay £5 and sell the domain to them.

This is why no legitimately valuable domains are going to make it through the 6 month period without being registered - outside of someone being dead or in a coma and not contactable.

 

[websaway]

Yes I know, and that further helps what I'm suggesting will happen.

Day 1, you buy xxxx.uk as you have xxxx.co.uk and its the oldest. Domainers all look at the whois for xxxx.uk and can immediately see its been registered.

Day 30, domainers look at yyyy.uk whois, and see that its not been taken. They are now all trying to contact the owner of whoever has the earliest version of yyyy and trying to convince them to pay £5 and sell the domain to them.

This is why no legitimately valuable domains are going to make it through the 6 month period without being registered - outside of someone being dead or in a coma and not contactable.

Bang on, it will become an industry in itself. Everyone doing nominets job for them, ingenious.
No wonder domainers and speculators love it. No growth, no benefit to the online economy just a tax levied on domain owners.

 

[Nigel]

A ‘right of first refusal’ would give registrants of existing .uk domain names at the third level (e.g. .co.uk, .me.uk, .org.uk etc) the opportunity to secure the corresponding registration at the second level. In the event of two competing claims, the oldest current, continuous registration(1) would be given priority. The proposal is to run the right of first refusal for a 6 month period from launch.

Domains not covered by a right of first refusal would be available to register from launch on a first-come, first-served, basis.


Anyone with another extension of the domain can apply. Presumably if the oldest registrant applies, they'll be given the domain immediately. If they don't, the next oldest to apply would need to wait on the full 6 months expiring, as right up till the last day the other guy could change his mind.

so the way I read it a business/individual may spend 6 months sweating it out - constantly looking to see if an older .me.uk or .org.uk has taken the prime domain. I doubt that Mrs Cowley and the rest of nominet's executive team would want to suffer a similar situation of uncertainty in their own lives.