Question for Nominet

[domaingenius]

Perhaps someone from Nominet could answer this. Has the Chief Executive of Nominet got nothing better to do than take calls from a "stalker" from this forum complaining that my website looks like a business one rather than private (individual one) and then getting involved in immediately publishing my address on the internet without even having the courtesy or business like approach to email and say "we cannot allow you to opt out of whois and if you do not fix it we shall have to remove the opt out". Are Nominet so egotistical that they think that they can do as they want when they want and stuff the registrants as they are merely the people that pay their wages ?.
All I ask is for courtesy and time to make good anything wrong. If Nominet was a bus service and found a person mistakenly had a faulty ticket, I guess they would open the door and merely throw the passenger out of the moving bus . That would be a pretty good comparison. Why the rush by Nominet to let a stalker or spammer seek the addresses of everyone, is it a matter that is so very urgent as to immediately publish addresses when some jealous crackpot makes a complaint ?.

Any comments welcome from Nominet, or indeed the crackpot himself.

DG

 

[texidriver]

Any comments welcome from Nominet, or indeed the crackpot himself.

DG[/QUOTE]

jac?

 

[olebean]

Perhaps someone from Nominet could answer this. Has the Chief Executive of Nominet got nothing better to do than take calls from a "stalker" from this forum complaining that my website looks like a business one rather than private (individual one) and then getting involved in immediately publishing my address on the internet without even having the courtesy or business like approach to email and say "we cannot allow you to opt out of whois and if you do not fix it we shall have to remove the opt out". Are Nominet so egotistical that they think that they can do as they want when they want and stuff the registrants as they are merely the people that pay their wages ?.
All I ask is for courtesy and time to make good anything wrong. If Nominet was a bus service and found a person mistakenly had a faulty ticket, I guess they would open the door and merely throw the passenger out of the moving bus . That would be a pretty good comparison. Why the rush by Nominet to let a stalker or spammer seek the addresses of everyone, is it a matter that is so very urgent as to immediately publish addresses when some jealous crackpot makes a complaint ?.

Any comments welcome from Nominet, or indeed the crackpot himself.

DG

Open season on acorndomain users!?

 

[aquanuke]

If someone went to these lengths to obtain your personal address details then burnt your house down could you hold Nominet responsible if you then proved that Nominet had no right to make your address available to the arsonist?

 

[olebean]

If someone went to these lengths to obtain your personal address details then burnt your house down could you hold Nominet responsible if you then proved that Nominet had no right to make your address available to the arsonist?

Aqua

If they broke data protection act yes!



Andrew

 

[retired_member16]

What stops you from providing a false address in the whois?

What are you going to have posted to you? DRS forms? They email these to you too.

 

[olebean]

What stops you from providing a false address in the whois?

What are you going to have posted to you? DRS forms? They email these to you too.

Fire

Anyone has the right to privacy. Lets face there are alot of nutters out there! As mentioned in one of my threads, some domains I have have connotations towards children, through the use of the data there is potential risk to them... As Nominet suggested I have asked registrars to change the data, they will not/cannot and Nominet refuse!

Time will tell what the outcome of both these issues are and whether anyone else gets clobbered too.

OB

 

[netserve]

We've had a recent issue where a domain was changed by Nominet to show the address of the female owner who had been stalked in the past as a result of her web site.

Nominet should allow at least 5 working days for domain owners to arrange for a "care of" address to be used or at least for the domain owner to ensure that the details are accurate.

 

[Paullas]

We've had a recent issue where a domain was changed by Nominet to show the address of the female owner who had been stalked in the past as a result of her web site.

Nominet should allow at least 5 working days for domain owners to arrange for a "care of" address to be used or at least for the domain owner to ensure that the details are accurate.

hi

yes that is a good idea.

 

[Beasty]

a "stalker" from this forum

Worrying claim DG...

 

[Jac]

The European Union’s 2002 Directive on privacy and electronic communications.

Fire

Anyone has the right to privacy.

In terms of the whois, only individuals who are non-trading entities have a right to opt out. This follows The European Union’s 2002 Directive on privacy and electronic communications (the “EU Directive”) which provides a useful statement of the principles that should be the basis for the protection of personal privacy in the WHOIS service. Here are a couple of extracts.

"Whatever data is collected should be relevant and not excessive for the specific purpose. The registration of domain names by individuals raises different legal considerations than that of companies or other legal entities registering domain names."

"Individuals should have the right to determine whether their personal data are included in a public directory. An individual’s identity and contact information should be known to the individual’s service provider."

"Any use of e-mail addresses for direct marketing must be based on opt-in only."

Lets face there are alot of nutters out there! As mentioned in one of my threads, some domains I have have connotations towards children, through the use of the data there is potential risk to them... As Nominet suggested I have asked registrars to change the data, they will not/cannot and Nominet refuse!

Time will tell what the outcome of both these issues are and whether anyone else gets clobbered too.

OB

Should the rules apply to everyone equally or not?

There are millions of registrants in the .uk namespace. The rules apply to each and every one of them equally and without prejudice. There is no animosity or spite in Nominet's adherence to its written policies and it is not a matter (as some of you suggest) of picking on a select few. So rather than continue to bitch and complain for all the wrong reasons, the question is this. Should the rules apply to everyone equally or not?

If the answer is yes, then you have no business being indignant because you were caught breaking them; you should have just complied with them in the first place. Or do you think you should be exempt from the rules that every other stakeholder has to comply with?

If you don't like the rules, apply to have them changed. You have a right to send in any reasonable suggestion.

People should just get over themselves and their egos.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[sneezycheese]

In terms of the whois, only individuals who are non-trading entities have a right to opt out. This follows The European Union’s 2002 Directive on privacy and electronic communications (the “EU Directive”) which provides a useful statement of the principles that should be the basis for the protection of personal privacy in the WHOIS service.

...I've just had a very quick look at some info from the Inland Revenue and it quotes:

Normally a trade involves the sale of goods or services to customers as part of a commercial enterprise. In most cases it will be clear whether an activity is, or is not, a trade. But sometimes it will not be easy to decide whether there is a trade. Whether an activity is, or is not, a trade depends on the facts in each case. When it is not clear which way the decision should fall it will be necessary to look at all the circumstances surrounding the activity.

I'll do some more digging later.

Regards,

The Big Cheese. :mrgreen:

 

[A-Wing]

Slightly changing the subject of thread a little:
I'm not saying this has happend, but what if Nominet make a mistake and make a individuals home address public, the domain owner would get no notice to appeal. Would Nominet then be liable for anything that happened as a result of this going public?

This isn't something that personally affects me, there are a lot worse on my street than anything anyone can dish out when they have my address I am just intrigued.

 

[olebean]

"Whatever data is collected should be relevant and not excessive for the specific purpose. The registration of domain names by individuals raises different legal considerations than that of companies or other legal entities registering domain names."

"Individuals should have the right to determine whether their personal data are included in a public directory. An individual’s identity and contact information should be known to the individual’s service provider."

"Any use of e-mail addresses for direct marketing must be based on opt-in only."



Should the rules apply to everyone equally or not?

Regards
James Conaghan

James

I do think you need to read this carefully..... In the directive that you quote, the definition of an individual does not differentiate between a non trading individual and a trading individual....

Equally, if you wish to take your definition. A non trading individual could register a domain in their name and allow free use of a domain to a trading individual/ club/ or business and still retain non trading status...

In terms of egos, yes james perhaps they should!

OB

 

[Michael Penman]

Any comments welcome from Nominet, or indeed the crackpot himself.DG

John,

We (usually the team in Registrant Services, but sometimes in the Legal Depatment) will opt in domain names which aren't eligable to be opted out. We do this whenever we notice such names, without any favour or prejudice, because it's our job to ensure everyone works by our Ts & Cs wherever we can.

If someone asks us for contact details for a registrant who shouldn't be opted out, then we opt them in, allowing the requestor to see the details (as they should be able to anyway) rather than wasting time sending the details to them.

If we opt in a registration then if time allows we'll check similar registrations to see if we can sort a load at the same time.

As I say, here in legal we do all this if we happen to notice and if we have time. There's little doubt that, because domainers sometimes like to bring one another's registrations to our attention, you being on here might mean we notice (are told about) more of your opt-outs.

If you'd like to know more about your particular domains and why they were opted in, please give me a call.

 

[Beasty]

Under the Directive, should the distinction not be between "natural persons" and others - rather than between "consumers" and others?

 

[A-Wing]

Under the Directive, should the distinction not be between "natural persons" and others - rather than between "consumers" and others?

Surely a business (as in Ltd or such) being a separate legal entity that has pretty much the same rights/laws as an individual is a consumer in its own right?

 

[Jac]

Fair and reasonable

We've had a recent issue where a domain was changed by Nominet to show the address of the female owner who had been stalked in the past as a result of her web site.

Nominet should allow at least 5 working days for domain owners to arrange for a "care of" address to be used or at least for the domain owner to ensure that the details are accurate.

This is a perfectly fair and reasonable suggestion (especially considering the circumstances you mention). Someone else already PM'd me to suggest that Nominet should indeed give some time to the registrant to explain themselves or organise a c/o address. Unfortunately, Nominet's current policy requires immediate opt back in, but I told the person who PM'd me I would take this up with the PAB and Nominet and hopefully amend the policy.

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[Jac]

Slightly changing the subject of thread a little:
I'm not saying this has happend, but what if Nominet make a mistake and make a individuals home address public, the domain owner would get no notice to appeal. Would Nominet then be liable for anything that happened as a result of this going public?

Nominet is obliged to apply due diligence but to be blunt, Nominet is just as liable as any other company to court action if any individual or company feels they have just cause to sue them. Nominet is subject to English Law just as all English residents are.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[Jac]

Equally, if you wish to take your definition. A non trading individual could register a domain in their name and allow free use of a domain to a trading individual/ club/ or business and still retain non trading status...

It is not my definition. It is the EU's.

In terms of egos, yes james perhaps they should!
OB

It is not my ego. It is the EU's.

Regards
James Conaghan