.uk V2.0 Questions to Nominet & their Answers

[Stephen]

To fully understand what will happen and the facts behind Nominet V2.0 .uk proposal,
we need to ask Nominet questions and analyse and publish their answers.

Then anybody looking at the Nominet .uk V2.0 proposal (and 3 other documents from Nominet you need to read to get the full picture)
plus these questions & answers supplied,
can then make up their mind about .uk with a better and fuller understanding of the issues.

I have listed below some questions for Nominet to answer:

Big Picture

What are the benefits of .uk as opposed to the reasons for .uk?

What will be done by Nominet about the possible consumer confusion between .uk and .co.uk?

What will be done by Nominet about security issues that arise between .uk and .co.uk being potentially different owners?

Why did Nominet not start a proper debate on the future of the UK namespace,
rather than use a limited viewpoint of the prior .uk consultation as the basis for moving forward the UK namespace forward?

Have any studies been undertaken by Nominet which would help stakeholders decide if the .uk should go ahead or not?

What is the total UK registry size each month for the last year for each tld extension? (Skinner #15)

There could be consumer pressure on UK business to obtain the equivalent .uk and adopt it,
so businesses would incur potentially huge re-branding costs, has Nominet undertaken any studies to ascertain if this is likely to happen? (Websaway #32)

Have Nominet considered what they will actually achieve by releasing the .uk is to cause confusion with the UK public,
which will hinder the uk name space and maybe drive people to use other new 1,000 gTLD extensions? (MarkB #105)

Did Nominet not object to the launch of the GTLD's a few years ago?
If so, what where their objections and could these objections be used to show why .uk is a bad idea? (GreyWing #106)

Will Nominet be using Nominet.uk as their main domain instead of Nominet.org.uk, if so why
not use .org.uk? and if staying with.org.uk then no more domains are made available, if everybody did the same?

If Nominet did change to .uk, what is the budget set aside for rebranding costs?
​

Alternative Solutions

Why not use alternative solutions such as opening up .net.uk
or other 3rd level tld’s be introduced to increase the availability of new UK domains?

Why was grandfathering the rights of .co.uk to .uk as the prime extension, not used as the allocation method?
As the other tld extensions e.g. .org.uk and .me.uk still have a specific purpose, which will be unaffected by the introduction of .uk.

Why not grant ownership of the .uk to the oldest registered UK domain,
so no other rights to other tld extensions, no 6 month wait and no free for all by domainers at the end of 6 months?

Why not operate an opt-out of your rights to the .uk rather than an opt-in?​

Special Cases

What about the artificial earlier registration of .me.uk at the recent 2 letter Nominet auctions?
I know this is mentioned as a consultation question, but why did Nominet not provide alternative solutions
or make this a special case as it did for non-government departments.
It is clearly unfair and could involve Nominet in costly legal disputes if not resolved.

Regarding the non-government bodies exception, have all those bodies confirmed
that the domain listed against their name, is the one they want to use going forward?
and is it true that they never asked Nominet to protect those domains for them (MarkB # 109)?

Why, in Nominet’s opinion will the .uk be more meaningful for those non-government departmental bodies to use than any other domain, .org.uk or .co.uk for example? (Lucien #144)

The government have confirmed that they have no locus to act in Nominet business, that Nominet is a private company limited by guarantee, regulated by its members. If the government refuses to accept responsibility for Nominet, then surely, it can have no claim on Nominet assets. A private company limited by guarantee is answerable to its members, it cannot give away company assets without the permission of its members. The government cannot accept gifts for favours, and there needs to be a proper and transparent mechanism for this transaction. What would be the legal basis for this proposed reserved domain name transaction? (Lucien #144)
Regarding the non-government bodies exception, were there any alternatives solutions that they could use for these domains,
i.e. a different extension like org.uk, or different domain names which are FTR (free to register) that were explored?

Will compensation be paid to those domain holders that will not get the .uk equivalent due to non-government bodies been given them?​

Things not addressed in V2.0

Will there be a cut-off date at all?
In version 1 over 1,000,000 domains were affected by the Nominet suggestion of a cut-off date
but V2.0 does not mention a cut-off date but by omission there is nothing stopping Nominet from introducing one in the .uk launch (if it happens).

What will the new Nominet advert for "a great place to be" look like showing .uk as a choice, whilst still supporting the other tld’s?

Why not include a list of negative aspects to the introduction of the .uk,
to those that don’t understand domains as much as the domainers, who debate the issues?

Would like to know if there are any controls in place by Nominet to stop poaching, i.e. Mr Deeper Pockets contacting oldest registration
to buy .uk and sell to them before the other legitimate (by proposed rules) parties get a chance. (skinner #10)​

Clarification of Detail

Why 6 months and not a year as a grace period?

The new charge for .uk is stated as covering costs, can Nominet provide the figures to support this?
As the amount suggested will be far greater than costs unless a reduction in joint ownership of 2 or more equivalent strings held, have Nominet thought this through, as dates will not be co-terminus.

Under the proposal how many of each tld will be in first place as the oldest registration to obtain the .uk out of the entire 10 million UK domain strings registered?

Why was .net.uk omitted as an eligible UK tld for rights to the equivalent .uk?
ANSWER:from Nominet Questions & Answers Q. How do I know if I have a right of first refusal? In the detailed answer - (Please note - .net.uk was omitted from the consultation document in error.)


For .sch.uk The Nominet Whois is recorded against the forth level but I am unable to find any record as to the third level?
e.g. Hampshire.sch.uk Nominet WHOIS shows : This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK
naming rules. The reason is: invalid format for a .sch.uk domain name.
So surely no .sch.uk domain can proceed any other tld as earlier registration, as not allowed in that format?(jonbyrne #104)

Why is Nominet referring to an emotive 1,000 new competitor gTLD's when a great many of them are closed to registrations as they are to be used for brand protection only?
​

Consultation Process

Why not email all UK registrants about the consultation advising them of how their domains currently stand
as to whether they would obtain the equivalent .uk? (this would also act as a good try run and .uk is important enough to make the effort)

Will Nominet contact those domain owners directly affected by their non-government department policy, of providing them with the .uk?

Does Nominet expect the Registrars to do anything about awareness of the consultation?

Will Nominet resolve all equivalent UK registered domain strings, adding tld .uk to a tailored website,
stating which domains have potential rights to that .uk domain?

Why did Nominet not contact all those that registered for updates for direct.uk Version 1 about the new V2.0 proposal?

Why did Nominet not contact all UK registrars rather than the few registrars that are registered on nom-announce list?

Will Nominet please add the "time" of registration to the Whois record for domains registered on the same day?

Why have Nominet not provided a facility to check a domain string and find which UK domain would be the oldest
and which domains would have right if they didn't register the equivalent .uk?

Nominet recently commissioned a report which stated "a national study of 5,000 people for Nominet found that 87% of Brits believe the internet has had a positive effect on their lives" did they have questions asked about .uk, if so would they please make them public?
​

If it went ahead

If the oldest registration domain came forward on day 1 of the launch and stated they would like the .uk equivalent domain
and they satisfied the address criteria, would they obtain the domain straight away to use, rather than wait for the 6 months to elapse?

How many emails over the 6 months grace period would Nominet intend to send to each registrant?

Will emails be sent to each registrant with a list of their domains or a separate email for each domain owned?

Which email addresses held by Nominet will be used to communicate to the registrant and/or the administrative contact and/or the Registrar?

Does Nominet expect the Registrars to do anything about awareness of the rights of current UK domain holders?

Will any .uk domains apart from .com.uk be held back for potential use of a new 3rd level UK domain by Nominet in the future?

If the email bounces will Nominet write to the domain owner or call them on the phone?

Will Nominet put more resources into dispute resolution to help with disputed cases?

What is the estimated budget cost for the .uk awareness campaign?

Will address verification requirement be capped per unique legal entity?
In other words, if 10,000 domains are owned by the same entity, is verification process required 1x or 10,000x? (Edwin #2)

Will Nominet resolve all equivalent UK registered domain strings, adding tld .uk to a tailored website,
stating which domains have potential rights to that .uk domain?

In the Nominet Whois, will the overseas and Uk address both be shown for .uk domains?

What does Nominet believe the initial and long term take up of .uk to be and the effect on the number registered of the other uk domain tld's? (getmein #120)

What will the estimated effect of the .uk proposal be on the Nominet bonus pool for the next several years?

​

Please add more "Questions to Nominet about .uk V2.0" in this thread.

Or post a possible answer to any question, if you know it

 

[Stephen]

Answer & a New Question

Thanks to Edwin for the first Answer and the 1st extra questions added

They've already announced the round table dates. See the bottom of
http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-parti...ussions-and-consultations/registration-second

Here's a question...
Will address verification requirement be capped per unique legal entity? In other words, if 10,000 domains are owned by the same entity, is verification process required 1x or 10,000x?

 

[Edwin]

Stephen, I think you need to separate those questions into different groups - you may get a better response that way.

Some questions are about V2, some are about the concept of .uk, some are pretty random (it seems to me anyway), etc.

By lumping them all in a big bucket you're unlikely to get enough attention paid to the IMPORTANT questions.

For example, "why 6 months and not a year as a grace period?" is a pointless question and needlessly accusatory. They had to put something in V2. 6 months doesn't sound unreasonable (it's a long time actually if you're thinking about the "uncertainty" side of the equation). So the answer can legitimately be "because".

On the other hand, "will there be a cut off date at all?" is a very straightforward question which is also "important". It is easy for them to answer ("yes, X date" or "no, no cutoff period") and it will provide additional information about the release process that we don't have right now.

You would probably be MUCH better served to take the list and whittle it down to the essential questions, the ones which provide additional detail about the V2 proposal and the release process.

Asking broad-stroke questions about the "why" of .uk isn't likely to get you any more answers than during the V1 consultation - we've seen all those questions before, and we know exactly how forthcoming (not at all) Nominet can be. Pragmatically, you will NOT defeat .uk by asking questions about the underlying principles - that's just too unlikely. However, other questions may highlight specific strengths, weaknesses or loopholes of Nominet's proposed V2 approach - and those are incredibly useful things to ask.

Failing the kind of selectivity I outlined above, you're unlikely to get much out of the whole exercise.

 

[Stephen]

Thanks

Stephen, I think you need to separate those questions into different groups - you may get a better response that way.......

Thanks for all your comments, they are very much appreciated.

Will consider a fuller response when I have reflected on the issues you have raised and I will adopt some of your ideas into the thread and process.

 

[Stephen]

the wait?

Stephen, I applaud your effort but some of those suggestions would create a disaster if they were implemented.

For instance, having to wait six-months to see if someone else wants the .uk domain creates a nightmare for everyone. It means we can't develop a domain and it means we probably can't sell a domain. To increase that to twelve-months would be commercial suicide.

Yes agree I would not want to wait, 6 months or longer, but didn't .nz second consultation offer a longer period.

It may be that if an "opt out" was introduced, then as soon as the registrants confirmed they did not want the equivalent .uk, it would be available for general release.

That together with people registering .uk straight away on day one if they were the undisputed oldest registrant (or only registrant) with the correct tld, rather than wait for 6 months or longer, would stop the waiting on many domains.

Maybe an incentive of free renewal?

I believe the Nominet answers and the questions themselves will foster more creativity for enhanced solutions.

This is what I mean about getting bogged down in the detail, can we not just go with a for or against?

There is already a vote thread on "will .uk go ahead?" and I'm sure eventually when more information is know and it has all been digested, another poll, "should .uk go ahead?".

 

[Edwin]

There is already a vote thread on "will .uk go ahead?" and I'm sure eventually when more information is know and it has all been digested, another poll, "should .uk go ahead?".

Why bother? What will a poll about "should" held on Acorn contribute to the wider debate? Nothing at all. It's not "evidence" that can be presented to the outside world in support of axing .uk - Acorn is far too unrepresentative a "sample" set for that.

All that will happen is that the results may further irritate those who feel strongly that it shouldn't go ahead ("But 86% of respondents on Acorn were against it!!!" or whatever the voting will show) but as I said, it won't influence Nominet one iota, nor get any attention or traction off the board.

 

[websaway]

You know with the greatest respect to the people who keep quoting .nz and to all the lovely folk who live in New Zealand.

New Zealand has a population of circa 4 million. Most of the people in the world don't even know where it is.

The uk has 70,000,000 people and is one of the top economic nations in the World.

 

[Skinner]

I would like to know if there are any controls in place to stop poaching, i.e. Mr Deeper Pockets contacting oldest reg to buy .uk and sell to them before the other legitimate (by their rules) parties get a chance.

My potential suggestion is free the ownership of contended .uk names for 1/2 yrs for example, that way owners who want them legitimately will apply, but there will be no carpet baggers. This maybe an inconvenience for some domainers and some sellers but would ease my mind a little over the times where I'm not the oldest registration but the names are of value.

 

[Retired_member41]

My opinion, again!

Not nominet and no one of domaining significance, but someone who has an opinion, and lots of common sense. So here is how I would answer those questions.

I think the only way this can work and to be fair without damaging existing businesses, is for .uk to replace .co.uk, there should be at least a £10 a year registration fee, and for .co.uk to be phased out over two years and then re released after 5, which should see very large take up, and a great place to be for non .uk owners. It should not be seen as another domain a company has to have to protect its brand, but an opportunity for another user.

Nominet would have the opportunity to speak to search providers as these actions would cause lots of problems, and in doing so build new relationships and possibly help the UK business/web sites have a stronger presence in its own territory, and help reduce the bogus and security risk sites from any UK domains.

During the pre implementation nominet could be at the heart of the UK internet, not just being the registry who thinks they are, most people not knowing who they are, but helping bring businesses together to aid the rollout, seo , designers etc, this would create lots of new jobs and possibly help existing web site owners, bring their sites up to current standards and in turn make their businesses better

So should nominet replace the .co.uk with the .uk, they should also bring out a few new extensions at the same time, giving people who do not own the .co.uk the opportunity to upgrade their own business domain, eg marmaladeuk.co.uk could buy marmalade.net.uk maybe?


what are the benefits of .uk?

It could open up the UK domain space if implemented properly. Yes the shorter extension may look appealing and pleasant, but a simple introduction of a new shorter extension has no real benefit to the UK's e economy.

why not use alternative solutions such as opening up .net.uk to increase availability of new Uk domains?

Yes why not, ok to me they don't fit the bill, but a trades person in their own town could successfully market themselves with such an extension, such as the numerous multi million pound companies that successfully marketed themselves using .uk.com's and the like.

Not everyone using a domain has to be a world leader in its field, and own the best domain possible.

The e economy is hugely important, but as far as the high streets of the UK, other extensions will do nicely. If it end in something.UK all the better.

will there be a cut off date at all?

The way I would like to see things happen, the cut off date should be the last registration of a .co.uk


what about the artificial earlier registration of .me.uk at the recent 2 letter Nominet auctions?

These should have no relevance, they are what they are.


what will be done about confusion between .uk and .co.uk?

As I said in my opening statement, there would be little confusion after a few teething problems.


what will be done about security issues that arise between .uk and .co.uk being different owners?

N/A for now, but 5 years down the line should the .co.uk be purchased by someone other than the .uk owner, uk civil law would apply for instances of passing off etc as they are now.


what will the new advert for "a great place to be" look like showing .uk as a choice?

N/A

why not email all registrants about the consultation advising them of how there domain currently stands as to whether they would obtain the equivalent .uk? (this would act as a good try run and .uk is important)

All holders of any xxx.uk domains should always be consulted about things that could have an impact on their domain.


why not operate an opt out of your rights to the .uk rather than an opt in?

N/A

why did Nominet not start a proper debate on the future of the UK namespace, rather than use a limited viewpoint for .uk consultation as the basis for moving forward?

Nominet have obviously made errors and been led by the major stakeholders, but they are who they are and they should be judged on how they act now. I think nominet need to bring in the people who they have been most against, better to sit around a table with so called enemies than not at all, especially when the so called enemies have so much to offer.

Remember, court action could tie an incorrect release up for years, ok, certain people may think we can do what we like, but in reality they cant.



why 6 months and not a year as a grace period?

N/A


will compensation be paid to those domain holders that will not get the .uk equivalent due to government bodies been given them?

N/A All current .co.uk owners should get the .uk and other provisions should be made for any government bodies utilising the current .gov.uk

will Nominet contact those domain owners directly effected by their non-government department policy, of providing them with the .uk?

N/A

how many emails do Nominet intend to send to each registrant?

As many as needed, if their current system of emailing expiring domain owners is anything to go by, there will be more than enough.



will emails be sent to each registrant with a list of there domain or a separate email for each domain owned?

I think all domains should recive an email, to the email provided in the domain details.

which email address held will be used?

N/A

does Nominet expect the Registrars to do anything about awareness of the consultation?

Registrars should also email and contact all holders, nominet should also take a stance on excuding registrars who time and time again rip customers off and offer poor service. There should be a bringing a registrar in house policy and set up should it ever need it. A huge majority of the uk domains are registered with the one group, this group has more companies set up at companies house, lots just idle, than you can count on a pack of monkeys fingers, should anything ever happen to these companies, a redundancy has to be in place.


will any domains apart from .com.uk be held back for potential use of a new 3rd level UK domain by Nominet in the future?

N/A

the new charge for .uk is stated as covering costs, can Nominet provide the figures to support this?

The registration fee should increase to a minimum of £10, with a heavily discounted rate for registrars.

Registrars should not be able to take over ownership of domains that expire and should be removed as registrars for acting against these rules, a domain should be deleted if the registrant does not renew. No more renewing and holding a domain as they have a financial claim against it.

Registrars who buy domains for resale (resellers) or their own use, should pay the higher fee and receive no discount.

Nominet should class these registrars as authorised resellers. Any tag switching in avoidance should be acted upon by reverting all linked tags to reseller status.

Nominet should have registrars opt in as resellers of domains, and not allow the registrars receiving a discount to resell, should they break this they should immediately go on to the higher reg fee with no discount for a period of at least 3 months, or until they opt out of being a reseller.


if the email bounces will Nominet write to the domain owner or call them on the phone?

NO, the email on file should be relevant, the 1 year roll out advertising should give enough time for owners to make sure this email is up to date.


will Nominet put more resources into dispute resolution to help with disputed cases?

Yes they should, nominet should have a department with several sections, who can investigate and provide evidence to any drs system. Giving profits to charity is fantastic, but make sure the Registry is as best as it can be first giving people jobs at nominet is a great use of profits.

what is the budget for the .uk awareness campaign?

As much money as they have in the bank, they are at the center of the UK internet, reaching people using state of the art social media applications and advertising should do the job better and cheaper than most can. There will be plenty of profits post roll out.

will Nominet be holding meet Nominet round table meetings as they did with .uk Version 1, consultation?. # A. post no.2

They should be round tabled out by the time all concerns are addressed.

Will address verification requirement be capped per unique legal entity? In other words, if 10,000 domains are owned by the same entity, is verification process required 1x or 10,000x?

Its easy enough if they are all on the same account and hold identical details to do them in as large a batch as possible.

will Nominet resolve all equivalent UK registered domain strings, adding tld .uk to a tailored website stating which domains have potential rights to that .uk domain?

Great idea, but if its a .co.uk to .uk its not needed.


Knowing lots of you on here, you will have forgotten what I have written above as your reading this now, however, domainers are not the only people in the world, no matter what we think.

Plus its my opinion, so hey ho

 

[Stephen]

numbers at the front of the queue?

Below is an email I sent to Nominet yesterday:

Regarding the new proposal for .uk, with the .uk going to the oldest registered UK domain (of selected 3rd level tld’s)

Can you please provide the statistics on how many .tld extensions are currently (or recently when you ran the numbers)
At the front of the queue for the equivalent .uk domain

e.g. 10,000,000 total uk domains
1st in queue

NOTE THESE NUMBERS ARE MY GUESS NOT NOMINET's NUMBERS

9,400,000 .co.uk
400,000 .org.uk
100,000 .me.uk
50,000 .sch.uk
25,000 .plc.uk
25,000 .ltd.uk

Thanks in anticipation of a full reply.​

Hopefully the Nominet answer will give all those interested some base numbers to find out the numbers effected.

 

[Skinner]

Also shows 9.1m domains total, which means the registry is dropping like a rock.

Edit: could there be 900,000 domains where only 1 extension is registered ?

 

[Stephen]

Also shows 9.1m domains total, which means the registry is dropping like a rock.

Edit: could there be 900,000 domains where only 1 extension is registered ?

Sorry those numbers are my guess, I have changed so adds up to 10m ish!

 

[Skinner]

Id like to know the total registry size each month for the last year for each extension.

I scan DV and DL drop lists every day on average 4000 unique names, around 500 are renewed, around 150 caught/regged another 25 are regged jn following few days (i only scan 5 days back) so from those numbers 60%+ are dropped, I find it hard to believe the registry isnt in free fall.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet's numbers

Id like to know the total registry size each month for the last year for each extension.

I scan DV and DL drop lists every day on average 4000 unique names, around 500 are renewed, around 150 caught/regged another 25 are regged jn following few days (i only scan 5 days back) so from those numbers 60%+ are dropped, I find it hard to believe the registry isnt in free fall.

Extract from Nominet Board minutes in June 2013:

http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/Communique-June2013.pdf

As at 30 April 2013 there were 2,851 active members and 4,661 active tags. Since the end of March 2013, 6 new members have joined. The number of new registrations in April 2013 was 168,360 (April 2012: 165,444.) The average renewal rate for the past 12 months (to Jan 2013) was 67.1%. The total number of names on the register as at 30 April was 10,492,669 and the net growth of the register for the last 12 months was 4.0%.

 

[Skinner]

I want to see a break down tho, they are hiding the last 6 months free fall behind the previous 6 month growth. Only really 2013 fgures im interested in.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet's Business Intelligence

I want to see a break down tho, they are hiding the last 6 months free fall behind the previous 6 month growth. Only really 2013 fgures im interested in.

Suggest you subscribe to Nominet's Business Intelligence, if you are a UK registrar,
for all the domain numbers you will ever need:

http://registrars.nominet.org.uk/business-intelligence

 

[Stephen]

Balancing the Books

Id like to know the total registry size each month for the last year for each extension.

I scan DV and DL drop lists every day on average 4000 unique names, around 500 are renewed, around 150 caught/regged another 25 are regged jn following few days (i only scan 5 days back) so from those numbers 60%+ are dropped, I find it hard to believe the registry isnt in free fall.

On you numbers 4,000 x 730 days (as 2 year cycle) = 3 million domains

There is also 7 million renewed on time/early that don't get into your system.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Plus looking at how many domains drop doesn't give you any indication of free fall, unless you compare it to how many completely new domains are being registered.

 

[murph]

I would like to know if there are any controls in place to stop poaching, i.e. Mr Deeper Pockets contacting oldest reg to buy .uk and sell to them before the other legitimate (by their rules) parties get a chance.

I'd like to see something done on this too.

 

[Retired_Member38]

How could that possibly be policed?

They can buy their older domain outright and take up the buy option themselves.

If the put a cutoff date in place for qualification, they could just pay someone to take up the .uk and immediately sell them it.

If they block people rom transferring the .uk's for x months/years, they could enter into a rent to buy contract where it didn't change ownership.

Or if the original domain was under a ltd company ownership, they could buy the company.


It would be completely unenforceable.