.UK V2 - The Losers

[Murray]

I took the list from Here

Looked at sales over £4000 co.uk vs org.uk only

44 of the 484 domains I looked at will lose out.

The total of all domains bought that will miss out is £578,194

They're listed below.

The registration of the co.uk is followed by the amount and date sold.

ps. Can't guarantee some aren't owned by the same person, though they're all on different tags.

and.co.uk 26/05/2005 £5000 2006
and.org.uk 23/03/1998

autoblog.co.uk 20/02/2007 £10,776 2011
autoblog.org.uk 07/03/2004

blackjackonline.co.uk 06/07/2010 £4,969 2011
blackjackonline.org.uk 28/02/2008

caiman.co.uk 03/06/2010 £8,000 2008
caiman.org.uk 28/05/2009

carports.co.uk 30/05/2007 £5,495 2013
carports.org.uk 12/08/2000

christian.co.uk 27/03/2003 £5,573 2010
christian.org.uk 06/09/1996

code.co.uk 25/11/2002 £18,000 2012
code.org.uk 02/09/1999

companyregistration.co.uk 13/04/2004 £7,000 2012
companyregistration.org.uk 05/02/2002

dr.co.uk 14/09/2011 £10,000 2013
dr.org.uk 29/07/2011

employment.co.uk 05/04/2006 £17,000 2007
employment.org.uk 15/05/2002

executor.co.uk 30/09/2011 £12,000 2013
executor.org.uk 06/09/2010

firsttimebuyer.co.uk 24/06/2007 £8,500 2010
firsttimebuyer.org.uk 25/11/2006

forecast.co.uk 26/11/2007 £6,094 2011
forecast.org.uk 24/12/2002

freecasino.co.uk 28/12/2005 £4,308 2010
freecasino.org.uk 17/08/2001

freemail.co.uk 16/09/2002 £13,468 2006
freemail.org.uk 20/10/1998

freeonlinegames.co.uk 02/06/2004 £20,000 2007
freeonlinegames.org.uk 11/09/2001

gig.co.uk 10/12/2005 £5,500 2006
gig.org.uk 28/10/1998

guns.co.uk 05/10/1998 £5000 2008
guns.org.uk 21/08/1994

harleystreet.co.uk 01/04/2005 £16,500 2008
harleystreet.org.uk 16/10/1999

history.co.uk 26/08/1997 £12,500 2006
history.org.uk 10/04/1997

html.co.uk 17/04/2003 £4,000 2007
html.org.uk 24/09/1998

kgb.co.uk 28/12/2005 £18,000 2008
kgb.org.uk 07/08/2002

kitchenappliances.co.uk 25/03/2009 £9,500 2009
kitchenappliances.org.uk 25/10/2006

kitchen-doors.co.uk 07/08/2007 £6,250 2011
kitchen-doors.org.uk 27/10/2006

leftfield.co.uk 13/08/2005 £4,113 2007
leftfield.org.uk 25/10/1999

listed.co.uk 04/06/2005 £14,500 2008
listed.org.uk 01/03/2000

lodging.co.uk 02/02/2009 £11,900 2009
lodging.org.uk 27/02/2006

lyrics.co.uk 30/09/2005 £45,962 2006
lyrics.org.uk 06/09/1999

moneysearch.co.uk 12/09/2006 £4,000 2008
moneysearch.org.uk 10/12/2004

myriad.co.uk 04/10/2008 £4,500 2006
myriad.org.uk 11/02/2005

network.co.uk 22/02/1996 £4,999 2010
network.org.uk 04/09/1995

networker.co.uk 04/05/2006 £4,000 2008
networker.org.uk 10/08/2000

ocean.co.uk 12/11/2010 £10,250 2010
ocean.org.uk 18/06/2007

partners.co.uk 19/10/2005 £12,000 2013
partners.org.uk 09/05/2004

partnership.co.uk 18/01/2007 £4,995 2007
partnership.org.uk 18/11/2004

performance.co.uk 14/06/2005 £4,600 2006
performance.org.uk 04/12/2003

phentermine.co.uk 07/08/2006 £5,000 2010
phentermine.org.uk 01/10/2005

pof.co.uk 13/08/2004 £6,748 2011
pof.org.uk 14/04/2000

recycle.co.uk 21/09/2004 £150,000 2007
recycle.org.uk 28/06/1999

resolution.co.uk 06/10/2005 £13,000 2008
resolution.org.uk 28/03/2000

scores.co.uk 27/01/2002 £10,000 2012
scores.org.uk 03/12/2001

smo.co.uk 04/06/2005 £6000 2011
smo.org.uk 05/10/2005

spicers.org.uk 14/06/2005 £6000 2008
spicers.org.uk 17/06/2004

theater.co.uk 02/12/2011 £5,410 2006
theater.org.uk 08/11/2006

tjc.co.uk 23/02/2004 £4,113 2007
tjc.org.uk 23/01/2000

wholesale.co.uk 26/05/2005 £19,355 2013
wholesale.org.uk 11/01/2000

 

[Retired_Member38]

Some of those create results that people simply couldn't care less about. Neither of autoblog.co.uk/.org.uk are used for anything of value so I don't think anyone will realistically bother who wins or loses there.

The only contentious issues I see are with ones like History - a legitimate charity vs a tv channel. They're both using their domain in a 'good' manner, and they both have a clear claim as to why they should have the .uk.

 

[Stephen]

Thanks very much for the effort and posting the results of your findings.

 

[Nigel]

Thanks for that info - makes interesting reading

 

[scooter]

Some of those create results that people simply couldn't care less about..

I think you will find the people who dug deep and purchased will have plenty to say. They purchase in good faith that they they are buying prime real estate on the only uk commercial name space.

I can see a lot of litigation coming if things move ahead.




.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I think you will find the people who dug deep and purchased will have plenty to say. They purchase in good faith that they they are buying prime real estate on the only uk commercial name space.

I can see a lot of litigation coming if things move ahead.

Plenty of these domains were bought as speculative investments. I'm not sure why these buyers now think someone should come in and save them because the investment may not turn out how they liked. I thought this type of behaviour was reserved for high street banks only

 

[Stephen]

a great place to be?

Plenty of these domains were bought as speculative investments. I'm not sure why these buyers now think someone should come in and save them because the investment may not turn out how they liked. I thought this type of behaviour was reserved or high street banks only

If any bought them after November 2012 than Nominet stated in its proposal that .uk would be the new commecial / business domain for the uk.

I don't know if they would have expected such a big "u-turn" from Nominet, saying something different about the purpose of .uk and giving .org.uk owners preference over them and possbily .me.uk!

If Nominet cannot be trusted businesses will adapt and change to one of the 1,000 new tld's or one of the old favouties like .com and so destroying the UK namespace in the process.

If you put yourself in the position of somebody who spend £20,000 on .co.uk , would you feel betrayed by Nominet and there .co.uk reteric about .co.uk as a great place to be for business?

We will all hopefully find out more on 1st July, on how .uk sits alongside the other UK tld's and what the new "a great place to be" advert will look like.

 

[Retired_Member38]

If any bought them after November 2012 than Nominet stated in its proposal that .uk would be the new commecial / business domain for the uk.

I don't know if they would have expected such a big "u-turn" from Nominet, saying something different about the purpose of .uk and giving .org.uk owners preference over them and possbily .me.uk!

Just like some people didn't expect a property crash. Yet it hurt their investments just the same. They still own what they bought, but its now worth less. Seems fair enough.

If you put yourself in the position of somebody who spend £20,000 on .co.uk , would you feel betrayed by Nominet and there .co.uk reteric about .co.uk as a great place to be for business?

I paid between 20-30k for cashloans.co.uk, I can't remember the exact number. I will lose the .uk to an acorn member. Thats fine, it was an investment and I ended up on the wrong side of this particular turn.

 

[scooter]

You only say that as in your own words, you will gain anything from 30K to 2million.


Strip all that away and say you only have 2 names and both for whatever reason you did not get rights to. .uk)


cashloans.co.uk paid £20k
monkey.co.uk paid 17K


Would you be happy as soon as .uk went live if there was a mirror image of your sites?


You purchased at these prices only in the knowledge that you could not get a more prestige extention for Uk commerce.








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[Retired_Member38]

Would you be happy as soon as .uk went live if there was a mirror image of your sites?

If someone put a car insurance site on monkey.uk I'd just get a solicitor to say they were passing off, and look to take the domain from them.

With cash loans I couldn't really care less. Its a generic phrase in a spammy niche. It hardly hurts my business if there is another one site competing with the thousands already there.

You purchased at these prices only in the knowledge that you could not get a more prestige extention for Uk commerce.

No I didn't... I purchased them knowing they were the best extension for me at that particular moment in time. I missed the part in the agreement saying they would never release any other extensions.

 

[Murray]

Just updated it.

 

[scooter]

If someone put a car insurance site on monkey.uk I'd just get a solicitor to say they were passing off, and look to take the domain from them.

With cash loans I couldn't really care less. Its a generic phrase in a spammy niche. It hardly hurts my business if there is another one site competing with the thousands already there.

You must have loads of money to chuck about if you don't care about a £20k purchase in the scenario I gave you. I think you will find most other genuine businesses would have a different attitude.


monkey.co.uk:
If you are the owner of the class 36 trade mark then you are right, there could be no other insurance site.

(if you are not the owner of UK00002418910 I would be worried even for your co.uk)


Even if you are the owner and the other trade mark holder of class 36 EU003132677 (comic relief) for whatever reason gets the name, would you still be happy as the double name confusion now comes in to play? when at the moment there is no confusion.



.

 

[Retired_Member38]

You don't need a registered trademark for someone to be passing off. Legal discussions bore me enough when they're with my own solicitors, and I have a financial incentive to actually listen. So I'm not really inclined to have the same discussions on public forums with people completely unqualified to give an opinion to be honest.


I'd rather not lose a .uk equivalent of a £20k .co.uk I bought... but again it was a gamble. I can't cry later on if Nominet bring out a new extension. I still own my .co.uk.

 

[Nigel]

Just updated it.

Thanks again - worth remembering that most of the large .co.uk sales will be subject to non disclosure agreements and we're probably only seeing a quarter of them on domainprices.

 

[Skinner]

Monkey you are speaking as someone with sufficient money for this to bounce off you, however just incase your personal shoppers haven't/didn't tell you, I suggest personal shoppers because I know you're not blind therefore I can only assume you don't visit town centres to see, but most businesses even big businesses could barely stand to lose £2,000 yet alone £20,000, so to the everyday business owner it would be the final nail if they lost that asset.

blah blah they keep the .co.uk blah blah gamble whatever, they won't see it that way when they don't understand that, all they know is they was told .co.uk was the top one, they dug deep, now they are being told we are renaming main street to shittyback ally and changing the name of poohcreek to main road, toodle pip.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Monkey you are speaking as someone with sufficient money for this to bounce off you, however just incase your personal shoppers haven't/didn't tell you, I suggest personal shoppers because I know you're not blind therefore I can only assume you don't visit town centres to see, but most businesses even big businesses could barely stand to lose £2,000 yet alone £20,000, so to the everyday business owner it would be the final nail if they lost that asset.

Who lost £20,000? I've still got my domain.

At best its lost 1-2k off its value (assuming this thing goes ahead as planned currently). And thats just value dropped off of something I already paid for. I don't have to go looking down the back of the couch to pay £1-2k in cash, and maybe can't pay it - its just a paper value on an asset.

Since I have no intention of selling it, the actual affect to me is nothing.

 

[Nigel]

sorry monkey but cannot take those figures seriously. Do you really think the price of a .co.uk will be devalued by just 5-10% due to the arrival of the shorter .uk?

I think .co.uk domains will still trade, and will still hold some value, but I think in reality they might only be worth 25% of their pre Oct 2012 value if the shorter .uk is launched. In addition some businesses may have spent tens of thousands on web design and marketing and will feel like crying if they see a vastly inferior .org.uk (when used as a commercial domain) barge them out of the way. Obviously the pain will be lessened if you own a lot of domains and not all are losers under nominet's plans, or if you're a very rich individual/business and can take the hit. But there will be some really sad cases - people who might be ruined by this - and might never have the strength to get back on their feet again. That cannot be right - which is why nominet should scrap this greedy plan of theirs.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Can all the people worried about their .co.uk losing value as per the above send me their domain lists and asking prices please? Thank you kindly.

 

[Nigel]

Can all the people worried about their .co.uk losing value as per the above send me their domain lists and asking prices please? Thank you kindly.

if you can post on here the purchases you make and prices paid it will help us to gauge the impact of .uk

 

[Retired_Member38]

sorry monkey but cannot take those figures seriously. Do you really think the price of a .co.uk will be devalued by just 5-10% due to the arrival of the shorter .uk?

I think .co.uk domains will still trade, and will still hold some value, but I think in reality they might only be worth 25% of their pre Oct 2012 value if the shorter .uk is launched. In addition some businesses may have spent tens of thousands on web design and marketing and will feel like crying if they see a vastly inferior .org.uk (when used as a commercial domain) barge them out of the way. Obviously the pain will be lessened if you own a lot of domains and not all are losers under nominet's plans, or if you're a very rich individual/business and can take the hit. But there will be some really sad cases - people who might be ruined by this - and might never have the strength to get back on their feet again. That cannot be right - which is why nominet should scrap this greedy plan of theirs.

You can take them seriously or not... but thats what I'll still be willing to pay for decent emd .co.uk domains for seo plays. Its probably worth bearing in mind me (and Redemption) are not domainers speculating on what end users will pay here. We are both successful developers, commenting from a position of experience. So we're both pretty well qualified to comment here... moreso than someone who is here because they are a domain seller (not aimed at you, I have no idea what you have or do).

I explained my thoughts on pricing in another thread, but a very brief overview is that my thoughts on pure seo plays are like above - the .co.uk takes a minor hit.

I would say brandable/generic domains are going to take a hefty cut. I wouldn't buy Monkey.co.uk without monkey.uk. I'm not quite sure how I'd split the money... but I reckon £20k for the pair. And one on its own, being effectively worthless to me. I wouldn't attempt to build a brand unless i have both.